Defensive line depth

[Harlan Huckleby]

CJ Wilson reportedly not playing well so far. Mike Neal - not fully recovered from injury, an unproven player.

We'll have to see how it shakes out. Maybe one of the rookies makes the team. I'm not thrilled by the defensive line mix. Not sure if Green was a one month wonder or still has endurance at 32. I understand letting Cullen Jenkins go, except do we really have his replacement in the wings?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I haven't heard anything about Wilson not playing well. Neal just got back from injury, so let's see how his recovery goes. I really like Neal long-term--provided he stays healthy. Not a lot is asked of 3-4 DEs, so I don't feel too bad about not having a stud there. Look how much time both Jenkins and Neal missed last year, and we hardly missed a beat. We have question marks at OG and DE (in a 3-4). To me, if you are going to have a couple of question marks, those are two positions to have them at.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Friday camp report, http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/126991793.html

"If defensive end C.J. Wilson doesn't pick up his play, he's going to be in danger of losing his spot on the roster. Wilson had a bad day in one-on-one pass rush drills, getting stymied three times, once by guard Josh Sitton, once by guard Evan Dietrich- Smith and once by guard T.J. Lang. Each time Wilson made his move and then basically got stopped in his tracks. Earlier in camp, Wilson admitted he had to improve his pass rushing skills and worked all off-season on gaining quickness. But in the first week of practice he's been nothing more than a guy playing the run. The Packers are looking for a player to team with B.J. Raji in the middle on third downs, and while second-year pro Mike Neal is the favorite, someone else is going to have to emerge to back up both men."

[hoosier]

I understand letting Cullen Jenkins go, except do we really have his replacement in the wings?

To me it seems likely that TT, MM and his staff figured that Jenkins is really just a one dimensional player at this point (Wilson or Green give as much or more against the run) and that he's only going to be able to go for 10 or so games per year. So what does the guy who replaces him have to do to qualify as his replacement? Assuming Raji continues to develop, he seems likely to provide as much push inside on passing downs as Jenkins did, and that means that Cullen's replacement just has to be the third best pass rusher (and a credible threat).

[Harlan Huckleby]

I really like Neal long-term--provided he stays healthy.

He hasn't played enough to make a judgement. I suppose you are right that the 3-4 ends mostly have to be stout, and Neal is known for being strong.

Look how much time both Jenkins and Neal missed last year, and we hardly missed a beat.

Jenkins' return helped a lot in the playoff run.

[Harlan Huckleby]

So what does the guy who replaces him have to do to qualify as his replacement?

generate some pass rush on 3rd down

[rbaloha1]

IMO the depth is fine. The youngsters shall emerge. Wynn looks good during family night.

[hoosier]

generate some pass rush on 3rd down

Raji will do that, and possibly better than Jenkins did last year. At the very least he will do it consistently (knock on wood...). Neal/Wilson has to provide just enough so the opposing offense can't consistently provide help against both Matthews and Raji.

I don't know either if they have Jenkins's replacement on the roster. I agree that Neal is still an unknown. A promising unknown. But in the end it doesn't really matter, because Jenkins is on the wrong side of 30 and re-signing him would just have curtailed the development of the guys behind him, which in TTs scheme for team-building is a bad idea. If it turns out that Jenkins's replacement is not on the team, I foresee one of three outcomes: either Capers will have to blitz more, or the pass rush will decline and the pass defense will suffer and the Packers will have to make up for it in other areas (improved offense b/c of Finley's return and Cobb's dynamism) or the pass rush will decline, etc., and the Packers will suffer with it. I predict that, whether Neal emerges as a younger version of Jenkins or not, the Packers will still finish the regular season better than last year's 10-6.

[LEWCWA]

JH to save the day!!!

[wist43]

Well, it certainly is a serious issue... I thought they were thin there last year. I loved Jenkins as a player, but understand why he wasn't resigned... but all TT did was draft Guy.

They've really only got 3 viable, NFL starting calibur DL on the roster... Pickett, Raji, and Neal. Depth is pathetic. They got away with it last year b/c Raji played like Superman, they got a lot out of Green, and Capers played Mr. Wizard with fronts that had 2 DL on the field.

TT is going to have to pick up at least a couple of bodies off of the waiver wire, or swing a low level trade or two at the cut to 53.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Friday camp report, http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/126991793.html

"If defensive end C.J. Wilson doesn't pick up his play, he's going to be in danger of losing his spot on the roster. Wilson had a bad day in one-on-one pass rush drills, getting stymied three times, once by guard Josh Sitton, once by guard Evan Dietrich- Smith and once by guard T.J. Lang. Each time Wilson made his move and then basically got stopped in his tracks. Earlier in camp, Wilson admitted he had to improve his pass rushing skills and worked all off-season on gaining quickness. But in the first week of practice he's been nothing more than a guy playing the run. The Packers are looking for a player to team with B.J. Raji in the middle on third downs, and while second-year pro Mike Neal is the favorite, someone else is going to have to emerge to back up both men."

I don't buy this. We hear these stories early in camp every year. Some guy struggles the first few days, and suddenly he might not make the team. I doubt Thompson cuts a second year player who proved to be a solid contributor on a Super Bowl team during his rookie year.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think that reporter's observations about CJ's play are right. I read negative tweets about CJ from GB Gazette reporters on other days.

Odds are you correct that Wilson will make the team. I thought Wilson played pretty well last year, maybe he is having a Super Bowl hangover.

[3irty1]

If I had to lay out the strengths of our guys it would be as follows:

Raji, impossible to move backwards, pass rushing monster. As good of a Nose tackle as exists in the NFL.

Neal is a passrusher. He's physically gifted with a crazy combo of speed and strength and has a few pass rush moves as well. Not huge enough or all that stout against the run. A great replacement for Jenkins if it works out.

Pickett is an example of doing what you've got to do to play your best 3. His best position is probably NT--the only thing he does really well is never move backwards. He's a good enough of a run defender to deserve that LDE spot. If something happened to Raji though, I think Pickett would move over.

Green reminds me of a poor man's jolly . He's surprisingly disruptive despite not being much of pass rusher but absolutely swallows the run. Green does it with size, Jolly did it with perfect technique.

Wilson has John Jolly upside. He can move well and has a good motor to make plays in pursuit and he's a dominant run defender for his size. He may never be a pass rusher per se but if he can find other ways to just be disruptive He'll earn that LDE spot soon.

Wynn is probably the third best pass rusher on this list and is likely to make the team just as a backup to Neal IMO. His real problem is that he's terrible against the run. He plays like he's 260 lbs. This is the area where young DT's tend to improve the most so I have high hopes for Wynn to become a complete player. Until he does he's not very useful to us, we just don't have subpackages that use this skillset. He's most useful in a 4-3 at DE or as a DE in a 3-3-5.

[vince]

I think Partial has taken over Harlan's account. You're fully ready to dismiss Wilson after a pretty solid rookie season but a poor handful of 1 on 1 drills - but haven't seen enough of Neal after a good camp, four solid games and solid start of the second camp.

[Lurker64]

Well, it certainly is a serious issue... I thought they were thin there last year

You're pretty much going to feel thin at the DL position as long as we play a 3-4 defense, since you only ever keep 6 on your roster, and only dress 5 on game days. We play on average 2.25 defensive linemen per defensive snap. You don't need a ton of high end guys to make this defense work. Unspectacular worker-bees are pretty much exactly what you want from your rotation DL.

There was honestly never a single position in the first 5 rounds of the draft when we picked and there was a 5-technique DE who was anywhere close to the BPA. Nor was there a single 5-tech DE available in free agency who would have been a good signing.