Defensive line depth

[wist43]

Haven't paid close enough attn to player movement or the draft to know what was available... so I'll take ur word for that, but surely some guys will be coming available at cut down.

And while DL takes a back seat to LB's in a 3-4, you still need 5 roster worthy guys to man those spots - we only have 3; and it's not like we're fielding a wrecking crew at LB either; Matthews is Pro Bowl, Hawk has stepped it up to be slightly above average, same with Bishop, Walden was okay. An okay unit, but outside of Matthews, nothing to write home about, and depth is pretty much nothing.

Bottom line, front seven is okay with what is going on the field, but just okay... backups look like hamburger flippers.

Has Guy shown anything yet?? Thought he looked like he had some upside when I looked at him after the draft.

[Patler]

Has Guy shown anything yet?? Thought he looked like he had some upside when I looked at him after the draft.

Unfortunately, he got a concussion a coupe days ago, and has been held out.

[bobblehead]

Well, it certainly is a serious issue... I thought they were thin there last year. I loved Jenkins as a player, but understand why he wasn't resigned... but all TT did was draft Guy.

They've really only got 3 viable, NFL starting calibur DL on the roster... Pickett, Raji, and Neal. Depth is pathetic. They got away with it last year b/c Raji played like Superman, they got a lot out of Green, and Capers played Mr. Wizard with fronts that had 2 DL on the field.

TT is going to have to pick up at least a couple of bodies off of the waiver wire, or swing a low level trade or two at the cut to 53.

You mean there are 3-4 teams who have more than 3 viable starting types on the DL? I understand the fans desire to be 53 deep with starters, but its simply not reasonable.

[packrulz]

Friday camp report, http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/126991793.html

"If defensive end C.J. Wilson doesn't pick up his play, he's going to be in danger of losing his spot on the roster. Wilson had a bad day in one-on-one pass rush drills, getting stymied three times, once by guard Josh Sitton, once by guard Evan Dietrich- Smith and once by guard T.J. Lang. Each time Wilson made his move and then basically got stopped in his tracks. Earlier in camp, Wilson admitted he had to improve his pass rushing skills and worked all off-season on gaining quickness. But in the first week of practice he's been nothing more than a guy playing the run. The Packers are looking for a player to team with B.J. Raji in the middle on third downs, and while second-year pro Mike Neal is the favorite, someone else is going to have to emerge to back up both men."

In this defense, the DE's aren't really expected to rush the passer that much, job #1 is stuffing the run. The DE's are supposed to occupy blockers so the LB's are free to roam, if they can rush the passer, it's a bonus. I doubt CJ will lose his roster spot. TT also brought in Guy and a couple other rookies to compete: 60 Donaldson, Chris DE 6-1 300 22 R Oklahoma State, & 65 Joseph, Eli DE 6-2 290 23 R Temple.
I like Jason Wilde's blog better, a bit more objective: http://espnmilwaukee.com/page.php?page_id=278

[wist43]

You mean there are 3-4 teams who have more than 3 viable starting types on the DL? I understand the fans desire to be 53 deep with starters, but its simply not reasonable.

Raji played a ton of snaps last year, and Capers used him very creatively... and while I agree that a team usually won't roster 5-6 "starting calibur" DL in a 3-4... I certainly want 4 such players, b/c everyone is going to play significant snaps in this day and age of rotation.

We have 3 NFL calibur starters - and no depth. That's the point - no depth. Green is okay, but is 32 and a "fat guy"... don't like the odds of him holding up all year.

If Raji were to go down??? Our season would pretty much be over at that point... as I've said, he was the team co-MVP right along with Rodgers last year. We don't win the SB last year w/o Raji.

[rbaloha1]

In this defense, the DE's aren't really expected to rush the passer that much, job #1 is stuffing the run. The DE's are supposed to occupy blockers so the LB's are free to roam, if they can rush the passer, it's a bonus. I doubt CJ will lose his roster spot. TT also brought in Guy and a couple other rookies to compete: 60 Donaldson, Chris DE 6-1 300 22 R Oklahoma State, & 65 Joseph, Eli DE 6-2 290 23 R Temple.
I like Jason Wilde's blog better, a bit more objective: http://espnmilwaukee.com/page.php?page_id=278

This is correct. The DEs read the o-line and tie-up blockers in order for the backers to flow to the ball.

IMO the Packers have enough bodies to accomplish this. Pass rush is usually generated by innovative blitz packages -- is matthews blitzing or dropping back? what about woodson? collins? cb blitz, ilb blitzes, etc.?

cj was a luxury due to the a quick first step and spin moves. (maybe neal is capable). raji creates movement allowing for stunts and/or gaps for c-g blitzes.

IMO the d-line depth is fine since as lurker mentioned this scheme does not require as many d-line bodies.

Its the back-up ilb that is more of a concern.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Partial has taken over Harlan's account. You're fully ready to dismiss Wilson after a pretty solid rookie season but a poor handful of 1 on 1 drills - but haven't seen enough of Neal after a good camp, four solid games and solid start of the second camp.

CJ Wilson has played poorly in the first week of camp, not a couple of drills, according to several reporters. I haven't dismissed him for the season, you have dismissed the reports.

NEal has a solid start this year!? He hasn't participated in live contact because of his shoulder recovery. I really don't remember much about NEal from last year, other than he looked physically strong, so am reserving judgement.

[mission]

Neal-Raji-Picket

Green and Wilson active on gameday. Seems fine to me.

[pbmax]

You have to list Green as starting capable as he was the starter in base down the stretch and in the playoffs. In fact, the base 3 lineman as of the last practice notes I read had Raji and Green at end and Pickett back in the middle. Green as starter might not be the best scenario given his age and history, but he will not be subject to a high percentage of snaps and his is pretty cost efficient.

Jenkins was the quasi-fourth starting lineman since he played the majority of nickel snaps. And it is those snaps that CJ Wilson is ill equipped for. If the only open spot for a reserve D lineman is pass rusher, he isn't going to make it.

But Harv is right in that Wilson would be expected to backup the ends in base. He would be in danger only if Neal is not available to start alongside Raji in nickel situations and the team needs to carry another interior pass rush threat. The battle to replace Jenkins is all about nickel pass rushing from the interior, not starting DE in base 3-4.

[pbmax]

This is correct. The DEs read the o-line and tie-up blockers in order for the backers to flow to the ball.

IMO the Packers have enough bodies to accomplish this. Pass rush is usually generated by innovative blitz packages -- is matthews blitzing or dropping back? what about woodson? collins? cb blitz, ilb blitzes, etc.?

cj was a luxury due to the a quick first step and spin moves. (maybe neal is capable). raji creates movement allowing for stunts and/or gaps for c-g blitzes.

IMO the d-line depth is fine since as lurker mentioned this scheme does not require as many d-line bodies.

Its the back-up ilb that is more of a concern.

Perhaps the single most important pass rush of the Super Bowl was generated by an interior D lineman that pressured Roethlisberger into a bad throw. No team can have everything, so losing Jenkins isn't a catastrophe. But it does hurt. And finding his replacement is important in beating very good teams.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Green appeared to be moving well last night. Of course that was about a 15 minute test, but he was surprisingly quick.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The battle to replace Jenkins is all about nickel pass rushing from the interior.

Bingo. I don't remember Neal being particularly slippery, but we shall see.

[pbmax]

Bingo. I don't remember Neal being particularly slippery, but we shall see.

Its supposed to be one of his strengths, but it very much depends on his recovery at this point. Then we get to see whether he can do it.

[pbmax]

A possible answer that I seriously doubt will happen barring injury:

Trevor Pryce: It was a shame Pryce just couldn’t find the playing time (260 snaps including playoffs, at the Jets), because he still has an exceptional burst off the ball, and can generate pressure.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/08/06/free-agency-2011-defense-whos-left/

Suggested Team: Green Bay Packers – they could use a solid veteran to come in on a line that is lacking in numbers. Pryce could fill the third down role left by Cullen Jenkins.

[wist43]

I like Neal to fill Jenkins role... but still, I'm not comfortable playing the amoeba living organism defense, i.e. the vaunted 2-whatever, everybody standing up roaming around defense 30% of the time, b/c the few capable DL we have are on life support trying to catch their breath.