packer involved in miami scandal

[mraynrand]

Maybe the NCAA should take more of an academic emphasis and leave nonacademic athletes to look for other opportunities. A whole new business could result, minor league football similar to minor league hockey and minor league baseball. In many ways, I would prefer that. There are some who have "careers" in the minors both in baseball and hockey. Some can earn a decent living in minor hockey well into their 30's. That opportunity is not there for football players, but could be if a minor league system was available that was not tied to NCAA eligibility.

The Alumni would never let this happen.

[hoosier]

MY two cents: The players violated the rules and should get spanked. I don't think most players are suffering, but a lot of activity is going on under the table. Football is a huge money making enterprise and the players are a big part of the draw. The benefits of their free education are completely uneven, depending on their competency for schooling. Some get great benefit, other actually are harmed. The spectrum is wide. I outlined my suggestion earlier in the thread. My basic thinking is to pay them and reduce the rules - many are absurd, such as those regarding payment for plane tickets, family visits, even haircut monies in some cases. Simplify and streamline. One of the main problems as I see it are these alumni who want to maintain this appearance as a pristine institution of higher education but want to grease the skids to get the best players on their teams - regardless of their fitness for higher education. The whole scheme breeds and encourages hypocrisy and scofflaws.

In this case I think the bigger point is the apparent deep complicit of the institution at many different levels. It's "The U" that should get spanked.

[sharpe1027]

MY two cents: The players violated the rules and should get spanked. I don't think most players are suffering, but a lot of activity is going on under the table. Football is a huge money making enterprise and the players are a big part of the draw. The benefits of their free education are completely uneven, depending on their competency for schooling. Some get great benefit, other actually are harmed. The spectrum is wide. I outlined my suggestion earlier in the thread. My basic thinking is to pay them and reduce the rules - many are absurd, such as those regarding payment for plane tickets, family visits, even haircut monies in some cases. Simplify and streamline. One of the main problems as I see it are these alumni who want to maintain this appearance as a pristine institution of higher education but want to grease the skids to get the best players on their teams - regardless of their fitness for higher education. The whole scheme breeds and encourages hypocrisy and scofflaws.

I have no problem giving college players more than the receive now. I also have no problem not giving them more. I have a problem with setting up rules that can be broken by individuals that carry almost no consequences to breaking the rules.

The two types of people that break the rules are 1) a person outside of the program and 2) a player. (Sometimes a coach is involved, but usually it is indirectly). If an person outside the program breaks the rules, they might get banned from going to games. Whoopty doo. If a player gets caught, it is often after they are already done with their college career, and nothing much comes of it from their point of view.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Vince McMahon needs to bring back the XFL and make that the farm system for the NFL.

Oh, and bring back the stripper cheerleaders too.

[mraynrand]

In this case I think the bigger point is the apparent deep complicit of the institution at many different levels. It's "The U" that should get spanked.

Yep - proportionately more than any punishment for the players

[pbmax]

What is this "suffering" you refer to? On the average, the college athletes I knew were about as far from "suffering" as anyone in school. I know, I know, it is so terribly unfair that there no minor league football system, but that is how the system is setup. Either play by the rules or choose another path. Life is full of conflicting desires. I have a conflicting desire for a billion dollars and the system is setup so that I have to some how earn that money legally. Maybe I should go rob a bank and blame it on this unfair system. It couldn't possibly be that I am a greedy and impatient person.

The players took the money/benefits knowing full well it was against the rules. I don't buy portraying them as the innocent victims.

Suffering in this case would be relative. The NCAA gets what it wants: college football with the best players for 3 years, large infusion of cash, hopes and dreams to sell to alumni, in return for donations to the Athletic Dept and the Library Fund. It also funds (along with basketball and the occasional other sport like hockey or Wom's basketball) the rest of the Athletic Department.

The NFL gets its minor league system and pays nothing for it.

The players get a college scholarship that many do not want, subjected to rules they have no interest in abiding and are denied the right to practice their profession for a wage.

What is the old line? They are holding on to a Lion by its tail and the only reason they continue to do so is that letting go would be worse. The NCAA would suffer a reduction in income from less-than-stellar rosters (this has happened in basketball*), exciting fewer boosters and losing an opportunity to increase the endowment. The NFL not only doesn't pay, but doesn't need to worry except in cases like Clarett or Pryor. And Title IX advocates are worried that such an arrangement would mean a loss of money to fund other athletic programs.

* The effect on college basketball will be fascinating to watch, as there is not nearly the interest in the regular season as there once was. But March Madness is just one event and can be maximized only by allowing more teams and games, which will return less and less to the coffers. I think Men's CBB will be shortly tapped out, at least in its ability to grow revenues faster than costs.

[mraynrand]

If a player gets caught, it is often after they are already done with their college career, and nothing much comes of it from their point of view.

except when you have to give back the Heisman...

[pbmax]

The Alumni would never let this happen.

Exactly the point. And in more than one way. Fundraising not just for the Athletic Dept but the University as a whole would suffer.

[mraynrand]

Exactly the point. And in more than one way. Fundraising not just for the Athletic Dept but the University as a whole would suffer.

And that's probably why they will never pay the players - they need that money for other things

[sharpe1027]

Suffering in this case would be relative.

Fair enough that it is relative. I tend to think that the degree of suffering is not all that much for students that are: 1) able to go to school for free, 2) offered more help with their classes than just about anyone else, 3) held in high-esteem by most supporters of the school, 4) publicized and promoted by the school, and 5) have their skills developed by some of the best coaches.

I don't think the problem is not paying the students. I think the problem stems from how the rules are setup and (not) enforced. One problem is the enforcement issue mentioned above. Another problem is that a lot of the policing is left to the universities themselves.

You can solve the problem of players getting caught taking handouts by making handouts legal. Of course, you also can solve the problem of murders getting caught killing people by making it legal to kill people.

[Patler]

Exactly the point. And in more than one way. Fundraising not just for the Athletic Dept but the University as a whole would suffer.

I think that is over-estimated, especially if there is a transition and competitive balance remains in the college programs. Alumni want to see competitive equality (or superiority) compared to the rival colleges. Most have no clue about the actual quality of play except in comparison to the opponent on the field.

[mraynrand]

You can solve the problem of players getting caught taking handouts by making handouts legal. Of course, you also can solve the problem of murders getting caught killing people by making it legal to kill people.

[sharpe1027]

Yes, I understand that it was an extreme example. That's was the point of the analogy because it shows that simply removing the rule being broken doesn't always result in an improvement. There are reasons not to allow just anyone to throw insane amounts of money at college athletes. For starters, the money is given in exchange for things like going to a specific college, transferring to another college or even to throw games.

[pbmax]

Fair enough that it is relative. I tend to think that the degree of suffering is not all that much for students that are: 1) able to go to school for free, 2) offered more help with their classes than just about anyone else, 3) held in high-esteem by most supporters of the school, 4) publicized and promoted by the school, and 5) have their skills developed by some of the best coaches.

All these things would be great unless you simply wanted a job. And for skill development, it would happen much faster in a minor league, full time, than at school where practices are limited to 20 hours per week.

[pbmax]

I think that is over-estimated, especially if there is a transition and competitive balance remains in the college programs. Alumni want to see competitive equality (or superiority) compared to the rival colleges. Most have no clue about the actual quality of play except in comparison to the opponent on the field.

Possibly, but I think the dollar figures for regular season basketball television will soon suffer (if they haven't yet) compared to previous highs, adjusted for inflation. With less money, it will fall more and more on alumni/ticket buyers to keep the program among the top in terms of facilities, etc. I think that could exacerbate a competitive inbalance, leading to fewer schools at the top levels. Interest in such a situation could wane.