AJ Hawk

[Brandon494]

It was a ridiculously overhyped draft class, we were projecting like 3-4 hall of famers on draft weekend, but ended up being the most disappointing draft (first round at least) in recent memory. There are about 4 players drafted behind Hawk in the first round that are clearly better players (at their position) than Hawk is: Ngata (best player in the draft), Hali, Holmes, and Mangold. There are two players drafted ahead of Hawk that are better players than he is (Mario Williams and Ferguson). Hawk's about the seventh best player in the first round and he was drafted fifth. Not that big a disappointment. Hawk is a push with guys like Greenway, I would say. Greenway's been pretty overrated for a long time.

Guys like Reggie Bush, Vince Young, Donte Whitner, Matt Leinart, Ernie Sims, Kamerion Wimbley, Brodrick Bunkley, Bobby Carpenter, and Lawrence Maroney... now those are disappointments, that draft was a minefield.

Only bringing up Whitner because he went to Ohio St with Hawk but hes done as much for the Bills as Hawk has done for the Packers.

[KYPack]

Lurk is right on with Ngata being the best player in that draft. Greenway vs Hawk? flip a coin. They are a wash. The best Mike in the draft? Demeco Ryans, who is better than either player. But that's with hindsight.

The comments about Hawk stiff and not athletically competant at the NFL level? Bullshit. The guy wasn't just given 10 million by us for nothing. He's not the star we hoped for, but he is right behind Ryans with Greeway as a solid NFL Mike.

[Brandon494]

There are certainly not a lot of first round players from that draft you would take over Hawk, even now.

Mangold is good, but who ever heard of taking a center with the 5th pick of the draft? Holmes? We got Jennings a round and a half later.

The only slam dunks would be Ngata, Hali and DeAngelo Williams. Vernon Davis I'm not sure about. His first couple of seasons were mediocre, but he's come on strong.

I so pissed at TT for not getting Davis for Favre that day.

[Brandon494]

Is Hawk even a top 20 MLB?

[Bossman641]

Hawk was decent as rookie and then bulked up too much. It looked like he could barely move his upper body. I hope he continues to become more fluid and instinctual with his increased responsibilities. I think he still has room to improve.

[Joemailman]

Is Hawk even a top 20 MLB?

No. He's not a MLB. He's a LILB. At that he is certainly above average. He does not make a lot of highlight reels, but he does things that enable others to make highlight reels.

[Lurker64]

Is Hawk even a top 20 MLB?

ESPN.com's Scouts Inc. has him rated as the #33 LB in the league (Bishop is #34), and there are 12 3-4 OLBs listed ahead of him: (Harrison, Ware, Matthews, Suggs, Hali, Wake, Woodley, Dumervil, Orakpo, Farrior, Shaun Phillips, Karlos Dansby).

Guys who are MLBs/ILBs rated ahead of Hawk: Willis, Timmons, Mayo, Lewis, Beason, Urlacher, D.J. Williams, Curtis Lofton, London Fletcher, James Farrior, Paul Posluzny, Jonathan Vilma (who Pro Football Focus graded as the single worst LB in the league last year), DeMeco Ryans, Derrick Johnson, and David Harris. So Hawk is a top 16 or so ILB/MLB.

But again, we're comparing a lot of different guys who play different positions for different defenses. So there's a lot of guesswork going on here. Ray Lewis would be terrible in the Bears defense, for example.

With Clay Matthews being #4, Hawk being #33, and Bishop being #34, there being 32 teams in the league about half of which start 3 LBs and about half of which start 4, that's a reasonably good group of LBs.

[Bretsky]

Linebacker was pretty deep in this class but that shouldn't matter all that much, it should be graded 3 to 4 years after. I think Chad Greenway is far and away the better player between him and AJ Hawk, and Greenway went like ten picks lower. Hawk was a great college player, had the size, and the combine numbers to back up his play at Ohio St, he just wasn't able to transition his dominance of the college game to the NFL game like you would hope a 5th overall pick would make.

I remember that LB class; the LB most had rated next behind Hawk was Ernie Simms.......thank goodness we didn't take him. Greenway is a better player than Hawk but I don't think he's that much better. DeMarco Ryans has been the best LB in that class so far and he went behind Sims and Greenway. I think Kirk Morrison was in that class as well.

[Lurker64]

The thing about comparing Greenway and Hawk is... how do you do it? Hawk is playing Buck ILB in a Capers-Lebeau 3-4. Greenway is playing WLB in a 4-3 in a variant of the Tampa 2. They're not really comparable.

It's possible that neither player could perform the other player's responsibilities quite as well. Hawk is the quarterback of the linebackers in Green Bay, but Greenway is not the QB of the LBs in Minnesota (that's E.J. Henderson). Maybe Greenway has made hay from playing behind an excellent defensive line, and he couldn't match Hawk in terms of leadership qualities. Who on earth knows?

[Smidgeon]

Is Hawk even a top 20 MLB?

I think he's somewhere between 10 and 20.

[Smidgeon]

Hawk was decent as rookie and then bulked up too much. It looked like he could barely move his upper body. I hope he continues to become more fluid and instinctual with his increased responsibilities. I think he still has room to improve.

He weighed 248 at the combine, a single pound heavier than he's identified as on Packers.com.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think saying Hawk is a bit stiff is fair (and I agree with the assessment that he bulked up too much after his rookie year), but I think we are underselling his athleticism a bit. He's not the elite athlete we thought he'd be with his combine measurables, but he's a decent athlete. Seriously, I think people just watch him closer because he's a big name that was a top pick, and he gets nitpicked. I do it myself, but when I go back and watch the games and I focus on Hawk and Bishop, they are pretty similar players in a lot of ways. Hawk is steady, durable and good QB'ing the defense. Bishop has more physicality in his tackles and is more dynamic, but they are both pretty good. Both are solid players that aren't going to get you beat a lot (Hawk moreso) and who also make their fair share of plays (Bishop moreso). Both just started on a Super Bowl winning team--with both being a big part of a defense that really improved after they started playing together. I think they work well together. They compliment each other well, and I think Hawk's steadiness allows Bishop and Matthews to freelance more and make plays. Kind of like how Tramon and Sam's steadiness allows Woodson to freelance more.

[swede]

...I think people just watch him closer because he's a big name that was a top pick, and he gets nitpicked. I do it myself, but when I go back and watch the games and I focus on Hawk and Bishop, they are pretty similar players in a lot of ways. Hawk is steady, durable and good QB'ing the defense. Bishop has more physicality in his tackles and is more dynamic, but they are both pretty good. Both are solid players that aren't going to get you beat a lot (Hawk moreso) and who also make their fair share of plays (Bishop moreso). Both just started on a Super Bowl winning team--with both being a big part of a defense that really improved after they started playing together. I think they work well together. They compliment each other well, and I think Hawk's steadiness allows Bishop and Matthews to freelance more and make plays. Kind of like how Tramon and Sam's steadiness allows Woodson to freelance more.

You make it sound like a team game. Maybe you're on to something, Harv.

[vince]

I think saying Hawk is a bit stiff is fair (and I agree with the assessment that he bulked up too much after his rookie year), but I think we are underselling his athleticism a bit. He's not the elite athlete we thought he'd be with his combine measurables, but he's a decent athlete. Seriously, I think people just watch him closer because he's a big name that was a top pick, and he gets nitpicked. I do it myself, but when I go back and watch the games and I focus on Hawk and Bishop, they are pretty similar players in a lot of ways. Hawk is steady, durable and good QB'ing the defense. Bishop has more physicality in his tackles and is more dynamic, but they are both pretty good. Both are solid players that aren't going to get you beat a lot (Hawk moreso) and who also make their fair share of plays (Bishop moreso). Both just started on a Super Bowl winning team--with both being a big part of a defense that really improved after they started playing together. I think they work well together. They compliment each other well, and I think Hawk's steadiness allows Bishop and Matthews to freelance more and make plays. Kind of like how Tramon and Sam's steadiness allows Woodson to freelance more.

I agree with just about every word of that, so that obviously means it's good posting.

[Deputy Nutz]

The thing about comparing Greenway and Hawk is... how do you do it? Hawk is playing Buck ILB in a Capers-Lebeau 3-4. Greenway is playing WLB in a 4-3 in a variant of the Tampa 2. They're not really comparable.

It's possible that neither player could perform the other player's responsibilities quite as well. Hawk is the quarterback of the linebackers in Green Bay, but Greenway is not the QB of the LBs in Minnesota (that's E.J. Henderson). Maybe Greenway has made hay from playing behind an excellent defensive line, and he couldn't match Hawk in terms of leadership qualities. Who on earth knows?

Greenway and Hawk played the same position their first 3 years in the league, wlb in the 4-3. Hawk was better their rookie year because Greenway blew out his knee on special teams, after that I would have probably said Greenway was a more dynamic player. Hawk is probably a more consistent player then Greenway, but Greenway makes more plays. I guess I went a little far in saying that Greenway is way better than Hawk. At their respected draft positions Greenway provided more value.