Heroes & Goats

[Fosco33]

I heard 60 mil this year and 57 mil last..

Only 30M tuned in to watch Obama (his highest ever was ~56M for Bin Laden death announcement).

[ThunderDan]

i was wondering about this, is lee really fast, or does cobb not have a top gear?

there were a lot of guys from both teams running with him on that play.

the good thing is he can go from zero to full speed in like 1 step, and not slow down while cutting, but he might not have that top gear

like barry sanders

Red, Cobb's momentum and speed were stopped when he did that spinning non-tackle thing. Everyone else on the field was going top speed to catch him and Cobb had to start from zero again.

I would guess Cobb used a heck of a lot more energy not going down on that play and didn't have the "top end" of his speed after 108 yard return.

[pbmax]

Enough with you amateur car enthusiasts and the fascination with the gas pedal. They Saints went zone and stopped blitzing. Guess what kind of defense tends to slow down the Packers passing game the most?

In fact, the Packers won this game not because of the collection of Hall of Famers in the passing game, but because of their newly average running game. Allow me to explain.

The Saints had solved the Packer defense by the end of the 2nd Quarter. If you remember, the Saints did whatever they wished to with the Packer D in the 3rd Quarter. The only thing that kept the Saints from taking the lead (perhaps even beating the Packers by more than a score) was time and the redzone.

The Saints had adjusted their D and the Packers never fully countered. Not because they are aggressive enough (is there a more aggressive combo in the NFL than M3 and Rodgers?) or are congenitally maladjusted, but because they had FOUR TOTAL DRIVES in the second half on offense (not including the KO touchdown) and 22 total Off. plays. One of those drives was at the end of the game and shortened by the 2 minute warning and Saints timeouts. Another drive or two, or more plays at the end of the game, perhaps the Packers adjust to seeing Gregg Williams run Lovie Smith's defense (not intended to be an actual diagnosis of which zone Gregg was running).

But given enough possessions, the Saints likely would have outscored the Packers in the second half by more than the Packers outscored them in the first. The only thing saving the Packers was the ability to drag a receiver down inside the 20, before the goal line. Because the shortened field in the red zone negated the Saints major advantage and forced them to run on occasion, which they did poorly when the Packers played a conventional front or the HIPPO formation.

But despite coming up lame inside the 20, the Saints still scored 3 TDs, so wishing upon the Red Zone Star wasn't going to win the game by itself. Since the D could not get off the field, McCarthy had to take time off the clock and reduce the number of possessions in the 4th Quarter so it did not match the 3rd.

To do this, on their 2nd to last drive M3 went to the vaunted 4 minute offense. 7 plays and 17 yards later, the offense had taken 5 minutes off the clock and reduced the game to 2 possessions total. They did this by running the ball. 8 plays, 5 runs (24 yards, two first downs) and 2 passes (1 yard and a -8 yd sack). In fact, if Grant had not allowed himself to go out of bounds on his 8 yard run on first and 10, it would have been closer to 6 minutes off the clock and the Saints wouldn't have gotten closer than FG range.

Contrast this with their first offensive drive of the second half. 3 passes, 2 incomplete, 57 seconds off the clock.

When the opposition is more efficient than you, you need to reduce their possessions or they will simply outscore you. He did that and won the game. It wasn't the defense (except perhaps run D) and it wasn't the passing offense, it was 5 runs for 24 yards and two first downs that won the game.

[pbmax]

I heard 60 mil this year and 57 mil last..

The numbers from Bob Wolfley at JSOnline:

Packers-Saints had 27.2 million viewers, making it the second-most watched primetime NFL regular-season game on any network in the last 15 years. Last year's Saints-Minnesota Vikings NFL Kickoff game had 27.5 million viewers. On Nov. 18, 1996, Packers-Dallas Cowboys had 31.5 million viewers on ABC's "Monday Night Football."

[red]

Enough with you amateur car enthusiasts and the fascination with the gas pedal. They Saints went zone and stopped blitzing. Guess what kind of defense tends to slow down the Packers passing game the most?

In fact, the Packers won this game not because of the collection of Hall of Famers in the passing game, but because of their newly average running game. Allow me to explain.

The Saints had solved the Packer defense by the end of the 2nd Quarter. If you remember, the Saints did whatever they wished to with the Packer D in the 3rd Quarter. The only thing that kept the Saints from taking the lead (perhaps even beating the Packers by more than a score) was time and the redzone.

The Saints had adjusted their D and the Packers never fully countered. Not because they are aggressive enough (is there a more aggressive combo in the NFL than M3 and Rodgers?) or are congenitally maladjusted, but because they had FOUR TOTAL DRIVES in the second half on offense (not including the KO touchdown) and 22 total Off. plays. One of those drives was at the end of the game and shortened by the 2 minute warning and Saints timeouts. Another drive or two, or more plays at the end of the game, perhaps the Packers adjust to seeing Gregg Williams run Lovie Smith's defense (not intended to be an actual diagnosis of which zone Gregg was running).

But given enough possessions, the Saints likely would have outscored the Packers in the second half by more than the Packers outscored them in the first. The only thing saving the Packers was the ability to drag a receiver down inside the 20, before the goal line. Because the shortened field in the red zone negated the Saints major advantage and forced them to run on occasion, which they did poorly when the Packers played a conventional front or the HIPPO formation.

But despite coming up lame inside the 20, the Saints still scored 3 TDs, so wishing upon the Red Zone Star wasn't going to win the game by itself. Since the D could not get off the field, McCarthy had to take time off the clock and reduce the number of possessions in the 4th Quarter so it did not match the 3rd.

To do this, on their 2nd to last drive M3 went to the vaunted 4 minute offense. 7 plays and 17 yards later, the offense had taken 5 minutes off the clock and reduced the game to 2 possessions total. They did this by running the ball. 8 plays, 5 runs (24 yards, two first downs) and 2 passes (1 yard and a -8 yd sack). In fact, if Grant had not allowed himself to go out of bounds on his 8 yard run on first and 10, it would have been closer to 6 minutes off the clock and the Saints wouldn't have gotten closer than FG range.

Contrast this with their first offensive drive of the second half. 3 passes, 2 incomplete, 57 seconds off the clock.

When the opposition is more efficient than you, you need to reduce their possessions or they will simply outscore you. He did that and won the game. It wasn't the defense (except perhaps run D) and it wasn't the passing offense, it was 5 runs for 24 yards and two first downs that won the game.

i'm not reading all that

i'll just assume its all horse shit

[Joemailman]

i'm not reading all that

i'll just assume its all horse shit

Good call. It's easier than thinking.

[gbgary]

When the opposition is more efficient than you, you need to reduce their possessions or they will simply outscore you. He did that and won the game. It wasn't the defense (except perhaps run D) and it wasn't the passing offense, it was 5 runs for 24 yards and two first downs that won the game.

reduce their possessions by sustaining drives. when they stop blitzing, rodgers has more time to pass. you can eat up more clock by throwing complete passes, staying in bounds, and getting more first downs. you might even get a touchdown at the end of your 14 play 80 yard drive with 6 first downs. running has it's place but the Pack need to keep doing what they do best...what they're built to do.

[pbmax]

reduce their possessions by sustaining drives. when they stop blitzing, rodgers has more time to pass. you can eat up more clock by throwing complete passes, staying in bounds, and getting more first downs. you might even get a touchdown at the end of your 14 play 80 yard drive with 6 first downs. running has it's place but the Pack need to keep doing what they do best...what they're built to do.

You cannot control all outcomes. Some passes fall incomplete, some players make great plays. Look at two different three and outs:

Green Bay Packers at 2:15, (1st play from scrimmage 2:14)
1-10-NO 43 (2:14) J.Starks right tackle to NO 41 for 2 yards (S.Shanle, S.Rogers).
Timeout #3 by NO at 02:08.
2-8-NO 41 (2:08) J.Starks right end to NO 37 for 4 yards (W.Herring, J.Charleston).
Two-Minute Warning
3-4-NO 37 (2:00) A.Rodgers pass short right to J.Kuhn to NO 37 for no gain (J.Vilma).
Timeout #2 by GB at 01:16.
4-4-NO 37 (1:16) T.Masthay punts 37 yards to end zone, Center-B.Goode, Touchback.

NO got the ball back with 1:08 left, the Packers took 1:06 off the clock while burning NO through 1 TO and the 21 minute warning.

Green Bay Packers at 6:54
1-10-GB 20 (6:54) A.Rodgers pass short middle to J.Kuhn to GB 27 for 7 yards (S.Shanle).
2-3-GB 27 (6:17) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to D.Driver.
3-3-GB 27 (6:12) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to D.Driver.
4-3-GB 27 (6:07) T.Masthay punts 42 yards to NO 31, Center-B.Goode. D.Sproles to GB 49 for 20 yards (D.Smith).

NO got the ball back at 5:57, Packers cleared 57 seconds off the clock and no timeouts.

[bobblehead]

In fact, the Packers won this game not because of the collection of Hall of Famers in the passing game, but because of their newly average running game. Allow me to explain.
.

This can't be right. A poster I respect named PBmax told me its a passing league now :P J/K.....Its just that I have been saying all along that you don't have to be a dominant runnnig team, but you MUST be able to be effective at it.

[pbmax]

This can't be right. A poster I respect named PBmax told me its a passing league now :P J/K.....Its just that I have been saying all along that you don't have to be a dominant runnnig team, but you MUST be able to be effective at it.

Though you may note that the time they took off the clock at the end of the game, came without a first down. So effective is good (better, even) but even ineffective can help you win.

I prefer a mix in that 4 minute offense example personally, but only if its high percentage pass stuff. And until the screen game is second nature, that may have to wait.

[denverYooper]

while burning NO through 1 TO and the 21 minute warning.

Dang. I didn't even know there was a 21 minute warning!

JK jk. I enjoyed the vitiation of the M3 accelerator analogy.

[mraynrand]

This can't be right. A poster I respect named PBmax told me its a passing league now :P J/K.....Its just that I have been saying all along that you don't have to be a dominant runnnig team, but you MUST be able to be effective at it.

What does this change? You don't score 42 points running the ball. It's a passing league, but yes, if you can run the ball effectively, you're a lot more dangerous. But does that mean NFL teams are looking to draft the great running backs, pay them 100 million, and organize their offenses around them? I think not.

[pbmax]

Dang. I didn't even know there was a 21 minute warning!

JK jk. I enjoyed the vitiation of the M3 accelerator analogy.

Yeah, that was a typo. I meant M3's 21 minute offense. Which, as you can probably guess, begins at the 9 minute mark of the 3rd quarter. It has its own laminated sheet and Sharpie color.

[Fritz]

It was a superb analysis, PB.

I keep looking for stuff like that in the JSO or GBPG, but rarely, very rarely, can I find it.

[pbmax]

It was a superb analysis, PB.

I keep looking for stuff like that in the JSO or GBPG, but rarely, very rarely, can I find it.

Thanks Fritz.