Kiper - Packers quiet plan

[woodbuck27]

I think Kiper had some conclusions and needed to come up with a story.

What he did know was that the Packers were the Super Bowl champions and they rarely made free agency moves. Which meant that their strength really was draft and develop. Then he looked at the Packers draft record and noticed they drafted a lot of players and usually had a couple undrafted free agents make the team.

So Kiper asks himself, "How could this be? Especially Aaron Rodgers who had this horrible delivery I railed on six years ago? Ah ha! Green Bay must've brought a 'quarterback expert' in to teach him! I'll write that!" Except, that's not what happened.

If Kiper did any research at all, he would have found out that McCarthy said they would not focus on Rodgers' mechanics, that they'd let it come down naturally. And only recently Rodgers said that he went and worked on it like crazy on his own. Let me repeat that: on his own. Somehow, "on his own" became "the Green Bay Packers brought in a quarterback expert to reengineer his mechanics." I don't get that logic jump.

So while Kiper hits his points that the Packers are really good at drafting and developing, he's swinging blindly. I don't think it's a good article at all. Just fluff with some good conclusions.

Can you support that conclusion of yours Smidgeon?

I'm interested as I was under the same impression. That MM and his original QB coach ...**Tom Clements were interested in changing ARod's mechanics. To assure his better success when he became our starting QB. I do not deny that Aaron Rodgers likely did much of the work on his own Smidgeon.

For those PackerRats that may be interested.

Some dit's on Tom Clements:

I was a Ottawa Rough Riders fan from the time I was a pre teen.

Back then it was 'the Green Bay Packers and the Vince Lombardi Era' (always my first team), the Ottawa Rough Riders, the Milwaukee Braves and the Boston Celtics, that I supported as a fan. I became familiar with Tom Clements and followed his career with interest.

A Bio on this former CFL star QB:

** Thomas Albert Clements (born June 18, 1953) attended Canevin Catholic High School, (now Bishop Canevin High School). He was a four year letterman in both football and basketball. He was also offered to play basketball at North Carolina, but decided to play football instead. He is the only athlete in Canevin history to have his jersey retired.

Tom Clements was the starting quarterback for the Notre Dame football team from 1972 to 1974 and led the team to a national championship in 1973. In the Dec 31, 1973 Sugar Bowl matchup against Alabama, Clements had a 3rd-and-9 Hail Mary completion from his own end zone with 2:00 left to secure a 24-23 victory. In 1974, Clements finished fourth in the voting for the Heisman Trophy and was voted a first-team All-American.

After graduation, Clements began a career in the Canadian Football League, quarterbacking the Ottawa Rough Riders for four seasons and winning the league’s Rookie-of-the-Year award in his inaugural campaign. The next seasonhe helped to lead the Ottawa Rough Riders to what became the teams last Grey Cup victory.

During his time with Ottawa Clements shared the passing duties with Condredge Holloway, from 1975 to 1977 as the quarterback getting the most playing time. In 1978 their stats were comparable, except for Holloway throwing only two interceptions to 12 by Clements.

Clements also QB'd the Sasketchewan Roughriders (1979). However a trade to the Hamilton Tiger-Cats quickly rejuvenated Clements and he led the CFL in passing yards with 2,803, the last to do so with less than 3,000 yards.[citation needed] I

n 1980, Clements was briefly on the roster of the NFL’s Kansas City Chiefs, coached by former Montreal Alouette head coach Marv Levy, but was the third string quarterback for a team that stressed the running game.

In 1981 Clements returned to the Tiger-Cats and threw for 4,536 yards.

He bested his numbers the next season with 4,706 yards.

In 1983 Clements was traded from Hamilton to the Winnipeg Blue Bombers for long-time Blue Bomber quarterback Dieter Brock. The next year those two teams, Hamilton and Winnipeg, faced each other in the Grey Cup. Clements led the Bombers to their first Grey Cup victory since 1962.

In 1986 he set a new completion percentage record with 67.5, 173 out of 256.

Clements finished his playing career with Winnipeg in 1987 and was also named the league's Most Outstanding Player.

In 2005, for the 75th anniversary of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, Clements was selected one of the Bombers 20 all-time great players.

In addition, in November, 2006, he was voted one of the CFL's Top 50 players (#47) of the league's modern era by Canadian sports network TSN.

Currently, he is the quarterbacks coach of the National Football League’s Green Bay Packers.

The Green Bay Packers Super Bowl XLV Champions

[denverYooper]

Makes me wonder how long the Packers will be able to hold on to Clements.

[woodbuck27]

Makes me wonder how long the Packers will be able to hold on to Clements.

Yes this is a winner. He understands adversity and having guts and determination too. He's worked with the likes of the great Marv Levy (Marv Levy an CFL Great HC with the Montreal Alouettes and the Buffalo Bills and KC Chiefs for a spell and back to the Bills) and how many other wonderful coach that help hone his skills as a former star QB that continues to impress as a winner after his playing days ended.

PACKERS FOREVER!

[Upnorth]

Makes me wonder how long the Packers will be able to hold on to Clements.

Another CFL coach who will be a great Off Coordinator in the NFL is Kent Austin. Currently head coach at Cornell, he has developed a fair amount of qb talent and is great at designing to a players strenghts. Love to see him as a coach at some level for teh Pack

[mraynrand]

The Packers organization has openly identified itself as a draft and develop team and they have the results that prove out their pretty unique ability to do just that.

So much for the 'quiet' plan

[Fritz]

I more agree with Smidge in that I don't think Kiper says a damn thing in that article. He tries to make it seem like he's about to reveal the "real" secret behind the Packers' success. But what does the article say?

1. Ted Thompson believes in quantity.

2. Because there are so many guys, and because the coaching staff fosters it, there is a sense of competition.

3. The coaching staff does a good job coaching 'em up.

Not much original and sharp thinking there, in my opinion.

[Smidgeon]

If you're saying that McCarthy and Clements have not been instrumental in developing Rodgers into the player he's become, I disagree wholeheartedly Smidgeon. Obviously it had to come from within him as well, but McCarthy and Clements are the best in the business at training and developing QB's. The Packers organization has openly identified itself as a draft and develop team and they have the results that prove out their pretty unique ability to do just that.

You have to remember that most of the readers of this national piece don't have much perspective on the Packers. There's nothing wrong whatsoever at looking at results and analyzing how and why they came about. Kiper did a find job of that here IMO.

I didn't say that. I was taking issue with the point that Kiper underlined, that the Packers worked specifically to re-engineer his mechanics. That's the part I'm taking issue with. Of course they worked hard with him to train him up, but the mechanics thing--as far as has been reported--wasn't one of the areas they worked, yet it was Kiper's headline example.

[Zool]

I can't find an article in the 10 seconds I looked, but I recall specifically McCarthy talking about teaching Rodgers to hold the ball lower on his drop back.

[mraynrand]

I more agree with Smidge in that I don't think Kiper says a damn thing in that article. He tries to make it seem like he's about to reveal the "real" secret behind the Packers' success. But what does the article say?

1. Ted Thompson believes in quantity.

2. Because there are so many guys, and because the coaching staff fosters it, there is a sense of competition.

3. The coaching staff does a good job coaching 'em up.

Not much original and sharp thinking there, in my opinion.

I think the title of the thread should have been: "Kiper-Not much original and sharp thinking there"

[mraynrand]

I can't find an article in the 10 seconds I looked, but I recall specifically McCarthy talking about teaching Rodgers to hold the ball lower on his drop back.

You would think the subject came up, at least during scones and tea.

[Smidgeon]

I can't find an article in the 10 seconds I looked, but I recall specifically McCarthy talking about teaching Rodgers to hold the ball lower on his drop back.

Well, I don't have a eidetic memory, so it's possible that I'm misremembering whether or not McCarthy and Clements worked on it. I remember McCarthy saying they'd leave it alone and it'd go down on its own since it was a taught thing to hold it high.

But even if they did work on it, it's still a different thing than "bringing in a quarterback expert to re-engineer his throwing mechanics".

[Zool]

Well, I don't have a eidetic memory, so it's possible that I'm misremembering whether or not McCarthy and Clements worked on it. I remember McCarthy saying they'd leave it alone and it'd go down on its own since it was a taught thing to hold it high.

But even if they did work on it, it's still a different thing than "bringing in a quarterback expert to re-engineer his throwing mechanics".

Agreed, they said nothing about his throwing motion, just his ball height.

[Joemailman]

I more agree with Smidge in that I don't think Kiper says a damn thing in that article. He tries to make it seem like he's about to reveal the "real" secret behind the Packers' success. But what does the article say?

1. Ted Thompson believes in quantity.

2. Because there are so many guys, and because the coaching staff fosters it, there is a sense of competition.

3. The coaching staff does a good job coaching 'em up.

Not much original and sharp thinking there, in my opinion.

The article wasn't targeted to well informed, level headed fans like us. It was intended for the people who still think the Packers run the screen pass as well as anyone. For them, there's a wealth of knowledge in there.

[pbmax]

Agreed, they said nothing about his throwing motion, just his ball height.

Correct. And McCarthy/Clements big re-engineering job? How would they go about it?

"We just ignored it and it came down naturally." And while Google and JSOnline are resisting, I will find this link.

Kiper is right in general, McCarthy and Clements QB school helped him immensely. But his detail is wrong. And he ignores the fact that the team, according to Andrew Brandt, knew in his first year he was going to be very, very good.

[hoosier]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-9325.html

Something similar to what you're remembering in Dan Pompei's NFP column from September:

McCarthy and Clements did not have to mess with Rodgers’ throwing motion at all. Rodgers takes exception to the notion that he throws differently now. “To set the record straight, the book that was written about myself after the Super Bowl [Aaron Rodgers: Leader of the Pack], it was 100 percent incorrect when he said that any coaching staff ever said anything to me about my throwing style. There was never anything once mentioned about me needed to make changes.”

What was changed was Rodgers’ ball carriage. Like all Jeff Tedford quarterbacks, Rodgers had been schooled to hold the ball above his shoulders, at ear-height. The Packers brought the ball down to shoulder height.

“Mechanically, he had very good throwing fundamentals before I got here,” McCarthy said. We just took the ball carriage and made it more natural. I want my guy to play in controlled rhythm. When he transitions in and out of the pocket, it’s all part of the motion. That has gotten him to play more naturally. If your arms are up like this, it’s different. That’s a locked position.”