Nick Collins

[King Friday]

The loss of Collins wouldn't be as bad if Burnett had something other than a club over his hand.

[Upnorth]

I don't want people to think my opinion is that collins did not matter, we are better with him than not. I just think improving the pass rush will solve a lot of what ails us. We won't be dominant but top ten would be right there. We lead inpicks without a pass rush, imagine where we are with a pass rush. Also burrnet has done everything we could hope for as collins replacement. He lead the league in picks pre club.

[vince]

Obviously Collins is/was a top 5 safety in the league and losing that level of talent hurts the effectiveness of the defense.

Even though Peprah had two picks last week, he seemed to be responsible for a number of coverage gaffes. I’m pretty sure he got sucked in by play action and was out of position on one of the Chargers early TD’s (when Tramon was trailing the deep crossing route across the field) and didn’t pick up guys that Williams handed off to him a couple other times. That’s the kind of stuff that’ll get cleaned up.

Also, the 2 pick-sixes in the first half and the on-side kick made the defense look worse because they were on the field on consecutive series 3 times in one game, which is pretty rare. Things would have looked different if Rodgers had the opportunity to help out the defense by having the ball more often.

So far the offense has helped the team overcome the loss of Collins and Jenkins both pretty well in the win column – the only stat that matters. They could have a downturn, but the defense is just as likely to get better. And if the offensive struggles are due to weather, a defensive “improvement” is likely to happen at the same time.

If Rodgers keeps taking care of the ball the way he has, this team is going to be tough to beat even if the defense uncharacteristically doesn’t get theirs - Collins or not.

[pbmax]

Yeah. I didn't understand that. Collins was so good at what he did the last few years. . . . I guess they wanted to expand his responsibilities into more of that near the line freelancer. Sure, those type of players are special in their way, but there are other ways to be special too.

Burnett is a classic center field deep safety. And Collins is a much more physical presence on the LOS and can blitz. It's where he and Capers want him to be. All of skinbasket's favorite Bigby moments came when Collins played up close. It's not new.

I think last year's pass defense would have presented more of an impediment to the Saints and Panthers. Teams have adjusted, Collin's absence prolonged the Packers response and the pass rush is in neutral.

[mraynrand]

They miss Collins to be sure, but really the whole secondaryy has been in the shitter. Burnett is essentially a rookie, and now a rookie with a club. Williams had the shoulder, and it took him off his game. Shields was in an early funk, recovered only to get himself knocked out with a monumentally stupid decision. Has he fully recovered? Peprah is JAG. With no more injuries, by the end of the season, this group should be OK. But that doesn't mean they won't get picked apart. Woodson is slipping and there is no inside pass rush. I can't see any way that Neal recovers in time to help. Even if he's full strength, any hope of him providing pass rush is wishful thinking. Same goes for So'oto from the outside. This team wil continue to give up points and will have to outscore teams to win. Making it to the NFCC game in San Fran depends on whether the wild card winner will have a decent defense. San Fran will carve them up, and has a good enough defense to slow the offense enough to win.

[RashanGary]

Burnett is a classic center field deep safety. And Collins is a much more physical presence on the LOS and can blitz. It's where he and Capers want him to be. All of skinbasket's favorite Bigby moments came when Collins played up close. It's not new.

I think last year's pass defense would have presented more of an impediment to the Saints and Panthers. Teams have adjusted, Collin's absence prolonged the Packers response and the pass rush is in neutral.

'

I'm missing ya here. Collins is better up front? That's what Capers and Collins want?

I don't know, I always liked Collins in that deep middle playing one safety high. We dominated with that.

Physically, sure, Collins is a nice fit at SS and as a blitzer, but just as a pure safety, I think Collins is far more dominant when he can be let loose with a less complex assignment. FS, especially one deep is, "don't let anyone behind you, and if nobody is, then feel free to jump a route. Oh, and when it's time to tackle, by all means, feel free to tackle" Collins was great at that.

It's more simple than, oh. . . . what Charles Woodson does for example, but Collins dominated in his own way. He and the two corners allowed Capers to open a whole new can of "WTF are they doing" whoop ass.

[LEWCWA]

Obviously when you lose the 2nd best FS in the league its going to hurt but the bottom line is we are not getting any pressure on opposing QBs.

I get and understand this, but how aggressive has the D been always playing so far out in front. I have to assume playing with big leads has something to do with how the games are called on D. I'm no expert, but I did toss the ball around at the Holiday Inn or whatever hotel it is last week....

[red]

collins is a massive loss for sure

but the fact that we aren't getting any pass rush what so ever is the main problem

also tramons injury or whatever's wrong with him is a huge problem. he's a shadow of the player he's been the last 2 years. he gives 10 to 15 yard cushions on every play

[pbmax]

'

I'm missing ya here. Collins is better up front? That's what Capers and Collins want?

To the second question, yes, clearly. Why else would Bigby have played deep at all? This is where Capers has wanted him for the entire tenure but has had to move him back deep more than planned due to injuries and ineptitude. It was where he got stationed earlier this year when Burnett was back, and where he was before Burnett got hurt last year.

That is not to say Collins was always in the box, as the answer to your first question is he is equally adept up close and deep. But Capers has tried everything to move him forward for his entire tenure.