Packers playing more 2 safety

[RashanGary]

"I think you've seen us play with a little more split safety," Capers said of a safer zone defense. "We had more seven-in-the-box on the run than what we've had in the past. When you do that, you see a little bit more of those runs come out of there.

"As we go along, we'll continue to make those adjustments until we feel we get it the way we want it. Every defense is different, and every game and who you're playing is different."





PB. . . . Come on now, guy. They're putting more over the top help and when they don't cover with two safeties, they play really soft with the corners, afraid to get beat deep. They're still getting beat deep.

We miss Nick Collins. He was 2 safeties in one back there. No safety in the NFL plays the deep middle the way Collins did. He's not that wild-card, in the box, never know what you're going to get, guy. He was the best there is, maybe the best in a while at doing what he did. We manned up outside, played one safety deep and had 8 in the box all of the time out of nickle and nickle was about all we played. It was unique. Nobody was doing it. Nobody had two cover corners and the best free safety in football. Nobody had all of that and a Charles Woodson. One guy. One playmaker. I'm becoming a believer.

[RashanGary]

I've said it, and I'll say it again. The Packers are playing more two deep. They're playing more zone. Do they play one deep? Sure. Do they play it as often? Not even close. Do the play man? Sure. Do they play man with one safety over the top nearly as much? Nope.

They didn't all of a sudden become a one coverage defense, but the image of TW and Sam Shields tight on the line with Nick Collins alone in the deep middle is engrained in my head from last year. They were so good at what they did, they had Woodson and Peprah who could rotate back into a deeper coverage post snap on any play. They could jump routes without getting toasted. They could stop the run out of nickle because they only had one safety deep a great majority of the time. They were so good at man and one over, when they did play zone, the opposing offense never knew it was coming. We had an identity, a hang your hat on "this" defense. The shock and awe came off of that. This year we don't have a dominant go-to defense. We're playing safe. We're predictable. When we try to do what we did last year, neither Peprah or Burnett can get over to break up that deep ball. We get toasted in 2 deep. We still play last years base coverage from time to time, but Capers has pretty much shown he has no confidence in our guys to be able to handle it as a regular defense.

[Brandon494]

I forget who it was that said losing Nick Collins wouldnt be a huge lost because the Saints put up a ton of passing yards on us but maybe they need to put down the crack pipe. Other then Ed Reed he's the best FS in the league.

[RashanGary]

What you're seeing this year, and the lineman have said it over and over. . . . There is more to pass rush than just personnel. They have to play their gaps first. Last year, with 8 in the box most of the time, one of those DL could be let loose on any given play without leaving an open gap. This year, if you let a guy like Raji loose, you're going to be leaving a gap open. Now, when we do let a DL loose (like we did with Raji more this game) we have to hope we guess right. If they run, yardage will get eaten up. If we guess right, we'll get the big plays.

That's what it's going to. Guessing right. Offenses are going to have to keep up. Every DC in the league wants to stop the run first. It's a fundamental football fact. With this offense though, we're going to put up points. The guess and hope defense is our best bet. But we're not the every day gambler. We can count cards. We have some edges built in. If we have enough healthy DL down the stretch to last a full game and be strong in the 4th quarter, it could pan out for us, on turnovers alone. We're still a good defense in 3rd and long. Guess right on first down, get a good play on second, then third down turns into a doable thing for us. STs are up. Offense is up. . . . . Defense is going to be that big play or bust type of thing. The bright side is there are a few great teams with so/so QB play in the NFC and a few in the AFC who could make it. We match up great against those teams. Also, even if we hit a great QB, we have the type of defense that's like playing black jack with an edge on the house. We can on a run at any time and even if we don't, AR/MM's time on the field playing dominant poker could be enough to come out ahead anyway.

It's going to be tough as hell down the stretch. It's looking that way more and more as Peprah and Burnett continue to fucking suck. We have a punchers chance, a great punchers chance, in fact. We're like a big mother fucking bully who can box a little. The hay-maker is our fatality move. We can get out-grinded and out techniqued, but at any point, we can lay down the fucking hammer and end the game. We're still the class of the crop. We're beatable, but we're a feared force. With last years defense. . . . WE might be the best there ever was.

Nick Collins.

Holy Shit!

[pbmax]

We're playing afraid of the deep ball. Everything they complete is underneath. Freeman has really been steady. Play after play after play. . . . Pressure is a problem, but credit to him, he's accurate and knows where to go with the ball.

They are playing deep when they blitz in mostly zone.

When they rush 3 they are in man and people are getting open as they have all year with no rush.

Weird year on defense. Last year it was a ton of that single safety high with man outside a lot of extra coverage inside on the zones. This year they're playing really different. A lot of zone corner and not a lot of single safety. Other than Woodson, Matthews and Hawk, our guys just don't play zone well

Zone on corner is common when they blitz five or more. Which is what they are doing the last two weeks.

The whole debate was about the outside coverage in 2 deep safety. My point, and it still stands, is that when they truly blitz (more than 4 bodies on pass rush) they tend to play zone outside. This is most typical on 2nd and 3rd passing downs with a significant distance to go for a first down. This is when the Packers D resembles the Steeler D, forcing a short throw in front of the sticks and tackling.

When they play 2 deep safety, they are playing man on outside like they did last year, not zone unless its end of half, 2 minute drive, hail mary, etc.

I don't think I was arguing they are not playing more 2 deep. I was arguing the coverage on the outside was not different this year except when they blitz. And they have been doing that more often in the last month trying to cover for the lack of pass rush. I think the D scheme calls have changed more because of pass rush than because of Peprah.

That is not to say Pep or Burnett have been other worldly.

Good to know you are thinking about me

[Pugger]

I suggest we all pray Collins can come back next season. That ain't gonna help us this year I know...

[pbmax]

What you're seeing this year, and the lineman have said it over and over. . . . There is more to pass rush than just personnel. They have to play their gaps first. Last year, with 8 in the box most of the time, one of those DL could be let loose on any given play without leaving an open gap. This year, if you let a guy like Raji loose, you're going to be leaving a gap open. Now, when we do let a DL loose (like we did with Raji more this game) we have to hope we guess right. If they run, yardage will get eaten up. If we guess right, we'll get the big plays.

This is interesting and I have not seen those quotes. Have a link to share?

Though like the Capers quotes you had above, 2 high safety seems like it could be a reaction to concerns over coverage OR the pass rush. Caper's is also playing more base 3-4 I would bet. That means Wood outside and not Shields. The help might be for Wood as well.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not sure. I guess it's how you want to label it. I saw a lot of plays where corners didn't get safety help deep.

Cruz's long catch. Peprah bites up, plays the TE out of the backfield, and doesn't cover the deep half of the field.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d824ba641/Cruz-42-yard-catch

Nicks long catch. Peprah bites up, plays the RB out of the backfield, and doesn't cover the deep half of the field.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d824bc54e/Nicks-51-yard-catch

Those plays don't look like a traditional two deep, zone scheme where the safeties cover the deep halves of the field.

[mraynrand]

I think the D scheme calls have changed more because of pass rush than because of Peprah.

That's pretty much it. The loss of Jenkins, and a vastly more ineffective Raji in generating pass rush has crippled the pass defense.

I've seen a lot of the 3-4 with CWood on the outside and I'm saying "Where is Shields?" Well, Shields isn't playing as well as last year either, though he did have one otherworldly pass defense on a go route in the Giants game up the right sideline.

The "W" isn't being played as well this year, in part because CWood has been playing more traditional corner. Teams have been finding him out there too.

Bush played the W in the opener and got a sack. He hasn't played much of that at all since Collins was lost. Bush plays the W much better than he does coverage, but the Packers just can't do it because they aren't getting solid play from other positions to allow those risks.

Burnett is still effectively a rookie back there (or ineffectively a rookie). It took Collins several years to figure out his position. On a good note, the club was off against the Giants....