Good thing Gregg Williams didn't take the Packer Job...

[sheepshead]

As I said, Williams needs to be banned or at the very least black balled.

[red]

will, it has now come out that williams also had a bounty system in washington. which he told goodell that he did have.

and now this morning it has come out that that he also had the system when he was head coach of the bills

by the time this all gets sorted out, the guy will never again be allowed to be within 500 feet of an nfl stadium

[swede]

If the Saints owner fires everyone and bounty-collecting players are suspended w/o pay for several games I do not know why you would punish the team beyond 2013 in terms of picks. If Payton and Loomis keep their jobs, I could see extending the penalty, yeah.

Remembering the severe penalties for Spygate, of which the precipitating bad deeds amused me more than angered me, I think we should not be surprised to find that a great big freaking axe is taken to the Saints draft picks for the next two years.

[Iron Mike]

Who Dat??

[pbmax]

That almost seems too light. I think the NFL suspends Payton and Loomis at least a year, and Williams will get the Johnny Jolly "indefinite suspension" treatment.

The players should get off comparatively lightly.

I dunno. That list of fines and penalties almost looks like a wish list. I don't think the NFL has ever leveled a million dollar fine at an individual, and I don't remember it happening to a team. The penalties in the Patriots videotape case were nowhere near this, were they?

It will be interesting to see. The Vilma information has been around for awhile, so I could see him avoiding the brunt of the penalty.

[pbmax]

Loomis is definitely getting canned and will never get another meaningful job in the NFL.

Saints owner Tom Benson told Loomis to make sure the bounty thing was ended before this became a big issue, Loomis lied to his boss and said it was. "Lying to your boss and getting the entire organization in a ton of trouble" is a good way to ensure that nobody will ever put you in a position of similar responsibility again.

Reports are that Benson is keeping him at his post. No report on whether the NFL would want him out or will do it themselves.

[pbmax]

Put yourself in the position of the owner. Your top management levels intentionally did things they had to know were wrong. At least one lied to you about it, and intentionally disobeyed your direct instructions. They lied to investigators.

Do you, as owner, have any option but to clean house? I could never trust the GM or HC again. Both would be fired. Several others in addition to Payton (and not only coaches) are reported to have known about it and/or put up money for it. I would get rid of them all, because I could never trust their judgement again.

It is the only way to begin restoring the image of the franchise. Everyone associated with it would be fired, if I were the owner.

Unless you as owner knew it was going on and Mickey Loomis is your walking talking alibi. Matt Bowen has already confirmed that this has happened elsewhere. I have serious doubts that the organizations that hired him did not know. Joe Gibbs claims he is shocked, but I find it hard to believe since players say this goes on everywhere.

[Joemailman]

This pretty much confirms my thoughts from 2 years ago that some of the hits on Favre were dirty football and a deliberate intent to seriously injure.

I guess now we know why the Saints were willing to let Williams leave to become the Rams DC. They knew the hammer was coming down sooner or later.

[mraynrand]

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bfnYp?u...nesota-vikings

Brett Favre was brutally pummeled in that championship game. Inspite of it all he stood in there somehow again and damn near pulled it out for the Saints losing another Super Bowl bid in OT by 3 points.

I never saw a QB get beat up that bad and stay in the game. It was brutal the way his OL left him out on an island; vulnerable to the time and again viscious Saints hits.

Vikings HC Brad Childress was pissed at his OL during the half time break in that game. the Vikings OL were someplace else but in that game. Was the SAINTS 'D' possibly just that brutal or inspired on that day by a silly bonus system? I'm shocked that Pro atletes can possibly believe that they can get away with such Neanderthal behaviour.

Length of career and quality of life issues are raised here.


GO PACKERS !

It wasn't as brutal as the pick he choked up to Tracy Porter to end their season.

Luv 'em or hate 'em, Favre was an absolute warrior in that game.

[ND72]

Luv 'em or hate 'em, Favre was an absolute warrior in that game.

It was the best game I ever watched...

[smuggler]

I dunno. That list of fines and penalties almost looks like a wish list.

They are going to lay the hammer. Loomis and Payton both knew about it. That's just as bad as Belichik in the Spygate scandal.

Except this involves a ton of players. Everyone is dirty in this. They all have to get hit with something. The team is going to lose its first rounder next year and probably one more draft pick.

[Lurker64]

They are going to lay the hammer. Loomis and Payton both knew about it. That's just as bad as Belichik in the Spygate scandal.

This is actually much, much worse than Spygate. When the NFL investigated the Pats, the Pats said "okay, here's all the tapes" and worked with investigators, and got off lightly for their cooperation. With the Saints however, the coach, the general manager, the assistant coaches, and the players directly lied to an official (and expensive) NFL investigation. Only when a smoking gun cropped up later (someone blew the whistle by giving the NFL a series of e-mail correspondences that confirmed the existence of a bounty system), did Benson, Payton, Williams, and company tell the truth to NFL investigators. They're going to get *nailed* for lying to NFL investigators. Apparently Williams lied again when he "came clean" by claiming that he had never done this sort of thing before, and the recent reports of similar bounty systems on Williams coached teams in Washington and Buffalo have convinced NFL Security that they need to escort him to a one on one meeting with the Commissioner tomorrow.

"Running an illegal bounty system" is going to get them in much, much less trouble than lying to NFL investigators. "You can get away with it by lying to our internal investigators" is something that the NFL absolutely cannot abide by, even less so than "you can circumvent the salary cap" or "you can entice your players to deliberately injure opponents."

[pbmax]

Its reached the Titans/Oilers and the reporter (Jim Wyatt) has evidence it predates Williams and traces back to Buddy Ryan. Titans continued the players system under Jim Schwartz. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ance-pool-too/

The interesting thing here is the dichotomy between the player run system and the reported system being run by the Saints. Players seem to emphasize that they paid out for big hits, some gong so far as to call for legal hits. The Saints were paying for injuries as well.

I would not be surprised if the players insistence on legal hits was more for public consumption than the enforced standard. But it makes me wonder when Williams changed, or if the players made the alterations along the way. It wouldn't be that far to travel along the continuum, as Ryan used to point out to his defenses that if you took out the offenses' best player, you were more likely to win. That was the lesson Reggie White learned in Philly.

[pbmax]

I had missed this. The Saints bounty program was funded, in part, from outside contributors. http://mike-freeman.blogs.cbssports....64363/35066335

That outside contributor is Michael Ornstein and the NFL apparently has his ties to the Saints and Sean Payton dead to rights. They have an email where he pledges money toward taking out a QB. Apparently, he has a personal relationship with Sean Payton. That's bad enough and makes you wonder if the Saints were out of control or if this is far more evolved around the league than current reporting/wisdom implies.

But as bad as that is, it gets worse. Michael Ornstein has been in legal trouble before. He was the money behind Reggie Bush's ineligibility at USC and has done prison time for fraud (I have no details on the charges **).

http://deadspin.com/5890499/meet-the-convicted-felon-who-defrauded-the-nfl-made-reggie-bush-ineligible-and-funded-the-saints-bounty-program

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17595418

** Oh, it gets cleverer. Ornstein was bilking the NFL as a marketing rep. He submitted fake invoices and then pocketed the payments. He was convicted of felony mail fraud. Perhaps it was wise not to hire Sean Payton, his judgement seems a wee bit off. Why on God's green earth would you associate with a felon who defrauded your own employer?

[mraynrand]

I agree with Patler. Trust evaporates with stuff like this. This is huge. A lot of guys are going to get canned; even if teams vastly prioritize winning over integrity (see for reference Bill Belicheat and the Patriots), this is just too big to go away with even severe fines.