Packers Secondary

[wist43]

Rastak, I agree... Minnesota's DL is much better than Green Bay's.

[woodbuck27]

Here's a question for you homers - which DL, across the board, would you rather have, Minnesota's or Green Bay's???

Any rational person would, or course, take Minnesota's... it isn't even close. The biggest defensive stat is turnovers, Minnesota forced 35, Green Bay "forced" 21 - I use the term "forced" disparagingly wrt the Packers b/c, on defense, they don't "force" an offense to do anything.

Minnesota's DL is immeasurably more talented than Green Bay's and generates pressure on a much more consistent basis... Not necessarily b/c Minnesota's DL are the "Purple People Eaters" reincarnated, but b/c Green Bay's DL is well below average - especially at DE.

Many of Green Bay's sacks come against very inferior T's, and other than the occasional clean sack, i.e. KGB getting the corner, there is no pressure. QB's are allowed to operate unhurried and unmolested in the pocket the vast majority of the time.

Yes wist43 we certainly look forward to that Animal DE sacker that = intimidation at the focus or origin of the pass.

Till we see that man in OUR lineup we will just take any sack - any way it materializes, from any player on OUR side in the near future.

This season.

Our turnover ratio, must improve in 2006, for any chance of a decent season.

GO Packers ! HOLD FAITH - in and throughout - 2006 !!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rastak, I agree... Minnesota's DL is much better than Green Bay's.

I wasn't talking about DL. I was talking about DEs. Jennings/Collins said something about Kampman/KGB, and how he thought they were solid. Then, you went on a rant about how shitty those two are.

Until I see otherwise, I'll take them over James and Udeze. Udeze has been injured and shitty in the pros, and injury prone in college. He may break out, or he may just get injured again. James has good potential, but he was also injury prone in college.

KGB would get 15 sacks/year playing next to Williams & Williams.

[Rastak]

Rastak, I agree... Minnesota's DL is much better than Green Bay's.

I wasn't talking about DL. I was talking about DEs. Jennings/Collins said something about Kampman/KGB, and how he thought they were solid. Then, you went on a rant about how shitty those two are.

Until I see otherwise, I'll take them over James and Udeze. Udeze has been injured and shitty in the pros, and injury prone in college. He may break out, or he may just get injured again. James has good potential, but he was also injury prone in college.

KGB would get 15 sacks/year playing next to Williams & Williams.

Actually Udeze and James did combine on a sack Monday night. Udeze hasn't been shitty but he has been injured and hasn't showed me much to date...I'll agree with that. He's looked good in camp since he lost 20 pounds in the off season but I need to see it in real games before I'll be impressed. As for James, he looked okay at the end of the year, I have high hopes for him. I'll agree they are NOT a proven tandum...yet.

[Chester Marcol]

Unfortunately the Packers have history on their side as well. If you really expect this year's pass rush to be any better than last year, just like the saying goes, we are doomed to repeat history. It will be another year of leading the league in 3rd down conversions allowed. The only way our linebackers help us in pass rush is if we switch to 3-4 where they are counted on to bring pressure. In my oponion, one above average DE would help our defense more than any of our additions. Disagree all ya want, but history(same DE's) shows that we will not have a defense that can get off the field. The only thing blitzing does for us is make sure there's a man open to catch a 3rd down conversion.

Cornerbacks can't cover forever. I think we have 2 of the better CB's that can over any route. It's just when the QB has 5+ seconds when the play breaks down, I think our CB's will lose that advantage. Only next offseason's history will tell, but I think we've already seen this defense and know exactly what to expect.

[Packnut]

Pass Rush

The majority of teams in the NFL do not have a real strong rush with their front 4. The key is to devise blitz packages that confuse the offense. No one does that better than the guy in Philly. Our hopes rest on our LB's being used in the right blitz scheme. Barnett sucks at blitzing so it's up to Hawk and whoever starts on the other side.

[Chester Marcol]

The majority of teams aren't in the playoffs every year either. Philly also has the freak, who I would consider above average, manning one of their ends. We've already proven blitzing doesn't work when the line can't get a push.

[ahaha]

This defensive line could definately be better this year with the pass rush. The key is to shut down the run on early downs. It makes a tremendous difference if you're facing consistent 3rd and 8 compared to 3rd and 4. This D-Line isn't as bad at rushing the passer as some on here would have you believe. How many teams in the NFL have lines that continually harass the quarterback? Not many. If they can improve on run defense, and the linebackers/safeties cover the tight end(our biggest weakness last year in pass defense), then this defense will be pretty good.

[Partial]

The majority of teams aren't in the playoffs every year either. Philly also has the freak, who I would consider above average, manning one of their ends. We've already proven blitzing doesn't work when the line can't get a push.

Kearse is a very good end, and now they have Howard with him. We'd be a fine blitzing team if we had hitters instead of finesse players. I predict Hodge is an animal on the blitz despite his short stature. I am convinced its attitude than attributes

[woodbuck27]

This defensive line could definately be better this year with the pass rush. The key is to shut down the run on early downs. It makes a tremendous difference if you're facing consistent 3rd and 8 compared to 3rd and 4. This D-Line isn't as bad at rushing the passer as some on here would have you believe. How many teams in the NFL have lines that continually harass the quarterback? Not many. If they can improve on run defense, and the linebackers/safeties cover the tight end(our biggest weakness last year in pass defense), then this defense will be pretty good.

That's for sure ahaha. Bring that on !!

GO PACKERS ! HOLD FAITH PACKER FANS !!

[pbmax]

I've got history on my side for this argument... KGB and Kampman get sacks sporadically, and over time have proven that they can't provide consistent pressure.

You've got history? Then tell me what history Kenechi Udeze and Erasmus James have?

The history of KGB disappearing against good tackles, and having multiple sack games aginst poor or slow tackles.
The history of Kampman not compiling double-digit sacks.

The history of both Williams at tackle in Minnesota being better than the GB DTs. Guys get older and injuries happen, but Minn gets the edge here. EJ and Udeze get better by proximity and youth/upside.

Even if the DE argument is tilted toward GB, the DTs make Minnesota tougher.

[pbmax]

Minnesota's front seven will make their secondary look good.

Green Bay's front seven can't generate enough pressure to help the secondary. They can't cover forever.

Edge to Minnesota b/c their front seven is so much better than Green Bay's.

Huh?? Where are the Vikings getting all the pressure from? In 2005:

The Vikings had 34 sacks on 533 opponent passing attempts
The Packers had 35 sacks on 430 opponent passing attempts.

In 103 fewer opportunities, the Packers had 1 more sack than the Vikings had last year.

Maybe if their DEs come around this year the Vikings might generate pressure, but they didn't get much pressure last year from anyone in their front seven on any consistent basis.

Got any stats for hurries, flushes or knockdowns Patler?

Becasue the Vikings managed, despite the minimal sacks, to hold opposing QBs to a 75.2 QB rating while the Packers were at 86.2. And thats with 10 common opponents I believe.