Greg Williams - Bounty Audio

[sheepshead]

He was aware that it was being recorded. There was a guy sitting in on the meeting there because he was doing research on head injuries in the NFL. He had a recording device with him. It's not like this was a surprise.

I just can't believe this is a big deal. I remember a D coach telling us in high school to kill the QB. I believe his exact words were "I want his mother puking in the stands after she sees what you did to him." Do you honestly think the players thought the coach wanted them to actually kill the opposing team? Was the coach saying he literally wanted his players to break Frank Gores neck? Sure he was telling his guys to hit the QB in the chin. If I could get away with it, I would too -- And what I mean by that is if the refs are allowing it during the game. Some officials are stricter than others. I also have no problems with coaches telling players to go after injuries. If a player has an injured body part and are stupid enough to still take the field and the coaches allow it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going for it and trying to get that player even more off his game. Are you telling me if a lineman had a concussion last week, you wouldn't head butt him every chance you got? Is it different for a WR?

I have no issues with his motivational techniques and his language. Where he has the problem is where he obviously offers a cash reward for big hits, which is against the rules. That is the issue and on that point, I think he's guilty as all hell.

The line that's crossed here is a tangible. There was a monetary reward for the result. The result of a guy leaving the game due to injury from the hit. That's a big big difference then a lot of Win One for the Gipper bullshit. Money actually changed hands from this as I understand it. The guy should not see an NFL sideline ever again.

[Pugger]

I just heard a recording of Brian Billick addressing this and he said in his 40 years in football he has never heard a coach specifically talk about going after another player's body part to take him out/or injure an opponent. He found this disturbing and said this kind of talk is NOT found in other lockerrooms.

[Smeefers]

I have a problem with it. Just because the refs can't see everything, that doesn't make it right. Just because some people are scumbags that doesn't make it right.

I'm not going to rob your house just because the police don't always catch robbers and because other people rob houses. Why, because it is a scumbag move and wrong.

Your analogy is wrong. It's more like leaving your windows and doors open with a sign outside that reads "lots of expensive stuff inside, will be gone from 9-5 every day. No Alarm system and neighbors hate me!" Then being surprised when your stuff is gone. Playing injured is STUPID and if a player gets cranked for it, then it's his own fault. Don't act like this game is some playground game. Guys always snicker and talk around what goes on under the pile. No one is unaware of the risks that go into playing.

[Smeefers]

Well, did you do your job? Was Mommy puking in the stands, or did you let your coach down, Smeefy?

No. I sucked at football and rode the pine.

[pbmax]

A target list of injuries is just one step past stupid, but the sanctimony is getting a little deep. Sapp, who took a year off Clifton's career, and Irvin are now claiming they have never heard such of such a thing.

Coaches who have taught defense this way have been around forever as have players who will listen to it. Reggie White acknowledged he purposefully held Brett Favre's arm in a vulnerable position and landed fully on top of him, hoping to injure or damage Favre's effectiveness. White succeeded in partially separating Favre's non-throwing shoulder. the fact that Favre continued to play well was one reason White signed with the Packers the next year.

Albert Haynesworth stomped on Gurode's face several years ago. Haynesworth is several iterations dumber than White. However, White was coached by Buddy White and Haynesworth by Ryan acolytes Fisher/Williams/Schwartz. Albert took the instruction more to heart and had less conscience about it.

Players have targeted other players injuries long before this. Why does anyone believe Belicheck and other coaches refuse to reveal the actual injury involved? Its the same reason Hockey coaches list players with an injured "lower body". Players targeted Aikman and Young's heads. Was it a coincidence that Wayne Simmons blasted the 49er fullback, causing a fumble, who had a cast on his hand/arm in the Packers playoff game at Candlestick Park? Simmons also targeted Brett Jones for some non-traditional coverage in throwing him around like a rag doll in that game. Simmons was one of Fritz Shurmur's favorites. Was it because he was a witty conversationalist? A former player for Shurmur said Fritz would get colorful but not go to the extent of listing injuries. How much more info is necessary to know what to do? Most of the players understand. Not all of them do it even when encouraged. That is when a coach asks for the team to bring in "his" kind of players.

Punishing Williams more for this speech is dumb, since it signifies nothing new. And oddly, there is no mention of the paydays.

The League wants to change the culture of coaching and football to encourage less hits with intent to injure and fewer headshots (and use of the head as an instrument of tackling). Fine. Especially with regard to putting a hat on the ball (or Chuck Cecil missile shots), is bad technique anyway and leads to more injuries. Previous efforts by the NFL (usually after a catastrophe that does not seem present in this case) have pushed the sports coaches in other levels to adopt better policies about hydration and training. Its probably a good thing and the only way the sport survives.

But Josh Sitton (perhaps unknowingly), Sapp and Irvin are being foolish if they think this isn't common among D coaches. Not all of them do it, but even a saint like Joe Gibbs have tolerated it.

[Patler]

Probably the most damning thing in the speech is only there if you see the video. When talking about hitting Smith in the chin, he said; "I've got the first one, I've got the first one" while rubbing his thumb on his index finger, the symbol for being paid. This was after telling everyone there was no bounty program, and after being specifically told to stop if there was one.

Saying to "find out" about a receivers concussion in the first two series sure won't win him any fans in the league office.
Neither will references to taking out Crabtree's ACL.

[Fritz]

The line that's crossed here is a tangible. There was a monetary reward for the result. The result of a guy leaving the game due to injury from the hit. That's a big big difference then a lot of Win One for the Gipper bullshit. Money actually changed hands from this as I understand it. The guy should not see an NFL sideline ever again.

Win one for the Gipper bullshit? In Smeefers's case, it sounds more like "Make mommy puke for the Gipper!"

[woodbuck27]

I have a problem with it. Just because the refs can't see everything, that doesn't make it right. Just because some people are scumbags that doesn't make it right.

I'm not going to rob your house just because the police don't always catch robbers and because other people rob houses. Why, because it is a scumbag move and wrong.

When I watch the way the Saints players ...demonstrating superior listening skills RE: Greg Williams 'Gestapo address/speech' to his defense, the night before that playoff game. Manhandle the 49er offensive players.

It was difficult for me NOT to imagine the game officials were missing (again).

[woodbuck27]

Probably the most damning thing in the speech is only there if you see the video. When talking about hitting Smith in the chin, he said; "I've got the first one, I've got the first one" while rubbing his thumb on his index finger, the symbol for being paid. This was after telling everyone there was no bounty program, and after being specifically told to stop if there was one.

Saying to "find out" about a receivers concussion in the first two series sure won't win him any fans in the league office.
Neither will references to taking out Crabtree's ACL.

Patler the whole pre-game address was absolutely appalling.

My lady went one step better. Mae remarked:

"Eddie ..you know what is actually worse than 'Greg Williams speech'. It's that his players actually bought into it; went into the game and tried their best to deliver on what Greg Williams demanded in his address. " Mae

Hearing that speech made me feel weird. I have never heard anything that bad in the 50 plus years I've followed Pro Sports. I cannot even imagine Greg Williams getting to where he could make suc an ugly/evil speech.


These Saint defensive players are members of the NFLPA and ' brothers ' with the San Francisco 49er's offensive players. How on earth could they possibly stoop to the mentality level to actually try to hurt brothers? Harm fellow Pro's??

In CANADA and in 'the sense of brotherhood' and Unions or Associations.that actual behaviour is absolutely incomprehensible...barbaric.

Mae knows little about football but enought to know this whole issue sucks and 'the players as the bottom line' need to suffer a harsh penalty. I can hear the argument now.

Those.... It's like war arguments and the football players are like soldiers and so must obey orders.

Anyone going there needs a serious reality check.

The NFL is about football NOT barbaric physical domination with empasis on serious opponent injury; destroying career and lives.

[sheepshead]

Win one for the Gipper bullshit? In Smeefers's case, it sounds more like "Make mommy puke for the Gipper!"

The point is, its all words, nothing more. A bounty is entirely different.

[sharpe1027]

Your analogy is wrong. It's more like leaving your windows and doors open with a sign outside that reads "lots of expensive stuff inside, will be gone from 9-5 every day. No Alarm system and neighbors hate me!" Then being surprised when your stuff is gone. Playing injured is STUPID and if a player gets cranked for it, then it's his own fault. Don't act like this game is some playground game. Guys always snicker and talk around what goes on under the pile. No one is unaware of the risks that go into playing.

I don't understand your logic. Are you saying that robbing someones house is not a scumbag move and wrong?

[woodbuck27]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/greej3

Chris Carter calls for lifetime ban on Gregg Williams:

“I believe that Gregg Williams, he shouldn’t be able to coach football any more, and the reason why is because we have given him our best athletes. We have given him the best athletes to coach in the NFL for the last 16 years and he has taught them the worst tactics that you can teach a football player. So, I believe the only penalty that would suffice for this type of crime: he shouldn’t be able to coach any more. It is a privilege for us to be able to play football, and a privilege to play in the NFL, and he has taken the last 15, 16 years of his career, and he has decided to do that with it. I believe that Roger Goodell, his penalty should be: he shouldn’t be able to coach in the NFL any more.” Chris Carter

[gbgary]

now THAT was something else.

[pbmax]

Patler the whole pre-game address was absolutely appalling.

snip

The NFL is about football NOT barbaric physical domination with empasis on serious opponent injury; destroying career and lives.

Woodbuck, have you ever seen the hit that Chuck Bednarik used to wipe out Frank Gifford? How about Jack Tatum wiping out Darryl Stingley? There are entire highlight packages devoted to these kinds of plays and bounties have been around long before now. Williams might have organized it to a new level, but there is nothing new here. For years crack back and cut blocks were legal in line and both could destroy knees. Chuck Cecil built a career out of being pedestrian safety who acted like a receiver seeking missile whenever possible, then posed for photos with the resulting bloody nose his own facemask gave him when he led with his head.

Players grab testicles in fumble piles and there is a reason coaches are loathe to disclose injuries. Players think Goodell is trying to change the sport not because they are now more barbaric, but because they have coaches that throughout their lives that have taught this kind of behavior. Many players resist this. But many do not.

The Saints got manhandled in that 49er playoff game. If they did go out to execute Williams specific instructions, they failed. Outside of the Vikings game and specifically the hits on Favre, there are very few instances of the Saints taking this approach on the field. Their penalties for these seasons were not out of line with other performances.

Ironically, one of the games I have seen mentioned where it could be interpreted they were playing beyond the normal bounds was the Opening Weekend versus the Packers, in the game where there was supposed to be a bounty on Rodgers. But the Packer writers seemed to dismiss that there was actual game evidence of such a plan. I do not remember any highly questionable hits. I still think the Lions tried to take Rodgers out in Detroit in 2010.

I wonder if players who are not found to have contributed sums to the bounties will see stiff suspensions or fines. The small number of on field incidents might help them.

[pbmax]

Probably the most damning thing in the speech is only there if you see the video. When talking about hitting Smith in the chin, he said; "I've got the first one, I've got the first one" while rubbing his thumb on his index finger, the symbol for being paid. This was after telling everyone there was no bounty program, and after being specifically told to stop if there was one.

Saying to "find out" about a receivers concussion in the first two series sure won't win him any fans in the league office.
Neither will references to taking out Crabtree's ACL.

There is a train of thought that the reason Williams isn't gone is that the NFL needs him to ferret out the behavior or perhaps in challenges to the penalties. I was surprised he was given an indefinite suspension with an option to reapply in one year. I expected his punishment to be guaranteed longer than Payton's.

If Williams did make that motion, then it would connect the bounties with this speech. I wonder of the League knew of the tape prior to now. There was an individual doing a sleep study with the Saints who was interviewed by Dan Patrick this week. He claimed he was interviewed by the League during their investigation and that one of the games they were most interested in was the Packers game in 2011. He claimed never to have heard mention of bounties, but his testimony seemed to hinge not only on what he heard but also his belief in Williams.