Greg Williams - Bounty Audio

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck, have you ever seen the hit that Chuck Bednarik used to wipe out Frank Gifford? How about Jack Tatum wiping out Darryl Stingley? There are entire highlight packages devoted to these kinds of plays and bounties have been around long before now. Williams might have organized it to a new level, but there is nothing new here. For years crack back and cut blocks were legal in line and both could destroy knees. Chuck Cecil built a career out of being pedestrian safety who acted like a receiver seeking missile whenever possible, then posed for photos with the resulting bloody nose his own facemask gave him when he led with his head.

Players grab testicles in fumble piles and there is a reason coaches are loathe to disclose injuries. Players think Goodell is trying to change the sport not because they are now more barbaric, but because they have coaches that throughout their lives that have taught this kind of behavior. Many players resist this. But many do not.

The Saints got manhandled in that 49er playoff game. If they did go out to execute Williams specific instructions, they failed. Outside of the Vikings game and specifically the hits on Favre, there are very few instances of the Saints taking this approach on the field. Their penalties for these seasons were not out of line with other performances.

Ironically, one of the games I have seen mentioned where it could be interpreted they were playing beyond the normal bounds was the Opening Weekend versus the Packers, in the game where there was supposed to be a bounty on Rodgers. But the Packer writers seemed to dismiss that there was actual game evidence of such a plan. I do not remember any highly questionable hits. I still think the Lions tried to take Rodgers out in Detroit in 2010.

I wonder if players who are not found to have contributed sums to the bounties will see stiff suspensions or fines. The small number of on field incidents might help them.

Of course you realize I'm criticle when it comes to anything 'even close to barbaric' and not just ' Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers ' but anyone that acts like a moron may indulge me in their wicked dance for awhile?

I've been watching football for 5 decades plus. I enjoy football above all pro sports and I love sports.
ie ...I'm excited today at the midway point of THE MASTERS. On top of the 'Leader Board' sits one .....Fred Couples. I'm wondering... will he fare better on Augusta"s Par 5's today and Easter Sunday than he did in a similiar spot and fell short not that long ago.

Watching sports is all about impressions. We watch this sport or game and Eurecka! Something magical happens and we might ie begin to really like that player and begin to follow that player.That's how I became a Green Bay Packer fan back in 1959. Football 'only meant' the Ottawa Rough Riders, Montreal Alouettes,Toronto Argo's, Winnepeg Blue Bombers to me.

Then I became aware of a fella named Y.A. Tittle. I became aware of a place called Green Bay, Wisconsoin. My baseball sports HERO was Henry 'Hank' Aaron. I like Eddie Matthews. Aaron and Matthews and Warren Spahn. I was a Milwaukee Brave fan and my loyalty to Aaron will never die.

Milwaukee Braves (Loyalty>>> Atlanta Braves)>>>Green Bay Packers (Loyalty 1959 >>> till I die)>>> Brett Favre (Loyalty)>>> Packer Forums (Packerrats LOYALTY) >>> Aaron Rodgers (LOYALTY).

The impressions I got of the NO Saints, and the ugly manner in which that Saints defense, on that day (NFC Championship Game - 2009 Season) performed Vs Brett Favre. Will certainly be etched in my mind forever. Etched how pbmax? It'll be forever etched in my mind as the most brutal combined effort to destroy a QB (Brett Favre) that I ever want to see again. I never want to see another NFL player suffer as Favre did so courageously that day. It was nothing short of brutal. I've paid attention to the NO Saints since.

I believe in karma. I know that BAD Guys finish last. Now we are observing'the Bad Guys' squirm. It looks so good on them.

Yes I watched NO Saints VS San Francisco 49ers this past playoffs. I watched with real interest. I'm inclined so. I saw the way the Saints defense played and again I wasn't impressed with how they took their man to the groung.This was a dirty team.This team is getting it's dues 'just what is demanded'of foul play.

The 'no Saints' players should get there's certainly and as well. I look for harsh penalty's on Saints defensive players. The NFL certainly has loads of ammunition and all it needs for a careful analysis of 'the dynamic outcome' of Greg Williams sicko ways. The way the SAINT players actually delivered such cheap shots.

Now having stressed my position.

I find it's somewhat ironic as a Packer fan (member of Packerrats) that one of those Saints players from that infamous NFC Championship game Vs the Minnesota Vikings has been signed as a Green Bay Packer. I can observe this players ability to squirm. I will see how this players hateful to moronic manner back then, will come forward to see his possible due punishment.

Re: that player.

a) I can wonder why? the Green Bay Packers have to be a part of that punishment?

b) Why would our GM sign him? Has this player 'really' cleaned up his act?

It's again (see Scott Wells) another wait and see that could have been simply... avoided.

GO PACKERS !

[pbmax]

Speaking of the 49ers, isn't their D coordinator Foge Fazio? And wasn't he the coordinator in Minnesota for a while? Was it his teams that always seemed to be taking cheap shots at players in the pile during Packer games? And this caused Rivera and Winters to run down the field to "clean off" the pile during or after a tackle? I seem to remember him as one of a few coordinators who encouraged some extra-curricular stuff, but my memory on it is fuzzy.

The other coach I know that everyone complains about (outside of Alex Gibbs and cut blocks) is John Teerlinck.

[Pugger]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8281ea74/Did-Gregg-Williams-go-rogue

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck, have you ever seen the hit that Chuck Bednarik used to wipe out Frank Gifford? How about Jack Tatum wiping out Darryl Stingley? There are entire highlight packages devoted to these kinds of plays and bounties have been around long before now. Williams might have organized it to a new level, but there is nothing new here. For years crack back and cut blocks were legal in line and both could destroy knees. Chuck Cecil built a career out of being pedestrian safety who acted like a receiver seeking missile whenever possible, then posed for photos with the resulting bloody nose his own facemask gave him when he led with his head.

Players grab testicles in fumble piles and there is a reason coaches are loathe to disclose injuries. Players think Goodell is trying to change the sport not because they are now more barbaric, but because they have coaches that throughout their lives that have taught this kind of behavior. Many players resist this. But many do not.

The Saints got manhandled in that 49er playoff game. If they did go out to execute Williams specific instructions, they failed. Outside of the Vikings game and specifically the hits on Favre, there are very few instances of the Saints taking this approach on the field. Their penalties for these seasons were not out of line with other performances.

Ironically, one of the games I have seen mentioned where it could be interpreted they were playing beyond the normal bounds was the Opening Weekend versus the Packers, in the game where there was supposed to be a bounty on Rodgers. But the Packer writers seemed to dismiss that there was actual game evidence of such a plan. I do not remember any highly questionable hits. I still think the Lions tried to take Rodgers out in Detroit in 2010.

I wonder if players who are not found to have contributed sums to the bounties will see stiff suspensions or fines. The small number of on field incidents might help them.

and YES ..... this too pbmax:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8281ea74/Did-Gregg-Williams-go-rogue

and RE: Chuck Cecil.I posted on the feroscity of this Packer player just this week I believe. I also posted that Vince Lombardi would have gone ballistic if any of his defensive players played it over the top dirty. I watched Lombardi's entire career as OUR Legendary HC. No HC ever demanded as much from his players and loved the game of football more.

The game of football and 'sportsmanship' trumps winning football games at all cost.

I will always remember this: "Favre is down and rolling on his back now."

That was sadly pathetic and a blemish on the NFL until it is clearly, totally and severely dealt with:

To ensure this sort of not acceptable unsportsmanship must be hugely penalized as a deterrent is common sense pbmax. As Packer fans we might understand that in certain real terms. The question I would ask myself if I was NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is:

RE: Anthony Hargrove and the $25 K$ for his over enthusiastic and moronic reaction to the state (he as a NO Saint) inflicted on Brett Favre.

Was that fine enough now that Goodell has a clearer picture after a concerted effort to coverup 'the Bounty Program'?

Does that action against 'our own' Anthony Hargrove (Ohh Boy !) exempt him from further penalty?

I'm 'only' left to assume that Green Bay Packer GM Ted Thompson thought that would be the case. That Anthony Hargrove would suffer no further action. Maybe Ted Thompson hasn't been paying attention?

I'm at such a disadvantage as 'just' a Packer fan to understand Ted Thompson. As a human being I'm well aware that even Ted Thompson will error.

GO Ted Thompson>>> GO PACKERS !

[pbmax]

Someone's always recording it seems

Most wounds are, indeed, self inflicted.

[Fritz]

"In CANADA and in 'the sense of brotherhood' and Unions or Associations.that actual behaviour is absolutely incomprehensible...barbaric."

I wonder if this is why the CFL is not as popular as the NFL?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Chris Carter calls for lifetime ban on Gregg Williams:

[I] “I believe that Gregg Williams, he shouldn’t be able to coach football any more, and the reason why is because we have given him our best athletes. We have given him the best athletes to coach in the NFL for the last 16 years and he has taught them the worst tactics that you can teach a football player.

Nah. If Michael Vick can be rehabilitated, so can Gregg Williams. Let him look for a job after a year on the outside looking in. Let some team hire him as a linebackers coach, and he can start anew. I expect he will see the error of his ways after such a thorough public shaming. His behavior was indefensible and has embarassed himself and his family.

[pbmax]

and YES ..... this too pbmax:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8281ea74/Did-Gregg-Williams-go-rogue

and RE: Chuck Cecil.I posted on the feroscity of this Packer player just this week I believe. I also posted that Vince Lombardi would have gone ballistic if any of his defensive players played it over the top dirty. I watched Lombardi's entire career as OUR Legendary HC. No HC ever demanded as much from his players and loved the game of football more.

The game of football and 'sportsmanship' trumps winning football games at all cost.

This thing to ensure this sort of not acceptable unsportsmanship must be hugely penalized as a deterrent is common sense pbmax. As Packer fans we might understand that in certain real terms. The question I would ask myself if I was NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is:

RE: Anthony Hargrove and the $25 K$ for his over enthusiastic and moronic reaction to the state (he as a NO Saint) inflicted on Brett Favre.

Was that fine enough now that Goodell has a clearer picture after a concerted effort to coverup 'the Bounty Program'?

Does that action against 'our own' Anthony Hargrove exempt him from further penalty?

I'm 'only' left to assume that Green Bay Packer GM Ted Thompson thought that would be the case. That Anthony Hargrove would suffer no further action. Maybe Ted Thompson hasn't been paying attention?

I'm at such a disadvantage as 'just' a Packer fan to understand Ted Thompson. As a human being I'm well aware that even Ted Thompson will error.

GO Ted Thompson>>> GO PACKERS !

I could be missing the report, but Hargrove was fined $5,000 for lifting and driving a ball carrier into the ground versus the Vikings. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...en-more-fines/

I simply get the feeling woodbuck that you are whistling past the graveyard on this. That you do not see the connection between football, coaching, players and this kind of organized violence. My argument is not about whether it is correct or morally acceptable to engage in these practices. The point is that Gregg Williams comes from a long line of coaches and players who have been celebrated and rewarded for this kind of behavior. Stopping it will be a good thing. To lay it all at the feet of Gregg Williams or the Saints is naive.

One of Lombardi's players, as Head Coach, put a player into his lineup for the Packers with a hit list drawn up on his towel. He proceeded to finish what was left of Jim McMahon's career. McMahon had been previously injured. Martin simply made it worse.

Reggie White admitted to intentionally dropping his weight on Brett Favre in such a way (while pinning his arm) as to damage his shoulder and render him ineffective.

Williams is guilty of turning the violence into an organized, pay for gratuitous hits scheme. The rest of football is guilty of tolerating this behavior for decades.

[woodbuck27]

"In CANADA and in 'the sense of brotherhood' and Unions or Associations.that actual behaviour is absolutely incomprehensible...barbaric."

I wonder if this is why the CFL is not as popular as the NFL?

Fritz.The CFL is more popular in Canada then the NFL.

Why do you imagine that the NFL game is more watched in my country? What's your source? Have you had the privalege of living in Canada?

Canadians LOVE the CFL. Canadians are famous for their LOTALTY and GREAT looks.

a) The CFL is far more exciting to watch. There are many more 'BIG PLAYS' because the greatest talent lands in the NFL making the canadian game of football more wide open thus ecciting. Outcomes are less predictable with one team leading by 10-14 points or more entering the fourth quarter.

b) The product on the field is superior in terms of 'the game' itself. The officiating in the CFL is considered superior more professional then we have to put up with 'as NFL fans' in an all blunders cancel one another out ... hope.

c) The greatest party in Canada is the week of the Grey Cup. The Grey Cup is a BIG WEEK in CANADA; while 'the Super Bowl' is a big day for Canadians.

I could go on with more.

[pbmax]

Speaking of Hargrove, the Lions and Schwartz were trying to sign him after his 2009 season. And Jim Washburn (former Fisher/Williams/Schwatz) disciple and Titan D line coach was in Philly the year he was signed there.

[woodbuck27]

Nah. If Michael Vick can be rehabilitated, so can Gregg Williams. Let him look for a job after a year on the outside looking in. Let some team hire him as a linebackers coach, and he can start anew. I expect he will see the error of his ways after such a thorough public shaming. His behavior was indefensible and has embarassed himself and his family.

Dam ! There now...I'm toast.

I cannot help but 'soften'... seeing my long lost brother post such compassion. Are you going to check out Fred Couples at the MASTERS today?

[RashanGary]

The NFL has been this way for a long time. Like Smeefers said, it's not all too uncommon for coaches to promote brutality. The Packers have been giving game balls for the big hit of the day for a long time.

The difference now is the NFL wants an 18 game season and they're doing everything they can to show players it's going to be a safer league and that they can handle the extra games. I truly believe the NFL is cracking down on brutality so they can get more games and more money.

Clay Matthews is our most brutal player and he's also our favorite defensive player in a long time. Whether they say it out loud or not, the great defensive players play to destroy the opponent.

Greg Williams would not be in trouble 10 years ago. He'd be one of the most highly sought after defensive coaches in the game. Today, with the NFL money hungry for extra games, it's a travesty.

I'm softening up in my old age. I'm not as big of a fan of the brutality as I was, but if there comes a day when it's too much for me, I'm not going to blame football. I'll find another sport to follow.

Gladiator sports have been going on for a long, long time. Unfortunately a lot of people like it and a lot of people like to do it. It is what it is.

[Joemailman]

Comments from some former Packers on the Williams situation. Williams is not getting support.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/146536215.html

DT Gilbert Brown (Packers 1993-99, 2001-03) --- “Obviously our guys were not that way. We had guys who tried to motivate in a positive way. In the heat of the battle, in the heat of conversation, when they’re trying to motivate, it was nothing compared to what this guy was doing. …There never was a bounty or something trying to hurt you. Our terminology was every time the quarterback’s standing there, you’re going to hit him. Let him know that you’re there. You have to get hits on the quarterback but we never talked about taking out his ACL or taking heads off. Our job was just to get hits on the quarterback.”

[Harlan Huckleby]

Are you going to check out Fred Couples at the MASTERS today?

I'm not much of a tennis fan.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Clay Matthews is our most brutal player and he's also our favorite defensive player in a long time.

I'd have to with Eric Walden, particularly playing in space. Brutal.