Greg Williams - Bounty Audio

[pbmax]

The NFL is also trying to lay down a firewall against lawsuits related to concussions and ill effects after player's career end.

The unfortunate part is that that researchers have made a determination that so far, the players most likely to suffer from the known effects of head trauma, are among the least likely to get involved in the spectacular hits downfield (or on the QB) that scream out concussion.

The bulk of the trauma that researchers have been able to document comes on the LOS, play after play, of lineman and backers running into people at close proximity. Its some of the mildest force on the field, but the repetitive nature may be the trigger later on.

If this research were to hold up, then looking at the rules of formation might be the way to go. And High Schools might regret outlawing the A-11 offense.

[woodbuck27]

I'm not much of a tennis fan.

Ohh Boy !

Antway it was too good... 'the drama' and Bubba Watson taking the Green Jacket.

In tennis the Champs take home crystal serving platters. Golf 'Jackets' Tennis 'serving platters'.

Harlan? Are you a fan of: Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader?

[Smeefers]

I don't understand your logic. Are you saying that robbing someones house is not a scumbag move and wrong?

Are you saying someone who advertises that their stuff is unguarded and there for the taking is responsible behavior? My problem is that there's a general feeling out there that there's only one side responsible for these actions. I agree that it's a scumbag move, but I disagree with the premise that going after injured players is unexpected or wrong. Most people speed. It's almost accepted here in Wisconsin that you can go 5 miles over the limit without getting pulled over. Everyone also knows that the faster you drive, the more likely accidents are. The difference between going 25 and 30 can be the difference between clipping a dude who walks out between a pair of cars and not. Sure, it's a scumbag move to speed in a residential neighborhood, but it's also the dude who walks out from between some cars' fault as well.

My problem is the bounty, the cash portion involved. That's like driving down the side walk, swerving to hit specific pedestrians.

[pbmax]

DeAngelo Hall thinks injuries are fair game for a hit during the game. At least publicly, when discussing a rival. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ck-into-focus/

LeRoy Butler sees no slippery slope when coordinators used to say "cut of the head and the body dies" instead of "Steve Young has a broken fibula". http://www.jsonline.com/sports/walki...146559685.html

From the same JSO article, Chidi Ahanotu says thier defensive turnaround in Tampa occurred when Asst Coaches Marinelli, Edwards and Smith arrived with Dungy. Their motivational techniques changed the culture to one of "[e]xactly that swag. We were trained killers. We were foaming at the mouth. We're trying to get you, brother."

He also said:

Ahanotu wanted to injure players, sure. He wanted the other team's best players out of the game - "Whatever, a broken finger, his thumb, something. That's what we had to do. I'm trying to hurt guys." And several of his coaches used the same "take the head off the snake" battle cry Williams did.

But as Ahanotu's voice speeds up, he stops himself. There is a line. ACLs and concussions are too far. On five teams, he never heard a coach tell a player to go after someone's head, someone's knee.

By the players own admission and actions, they are trying to hurt and send players out of the game with injuries. This behavior is acceptable. But according to the press and NFL, reading from the publicly available injury list can not be done in a locker room or by a coach. No one may consider this information (except DeAngelo Hall of course).

Goodell is treating a symptom here, not the cause.

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/09/liability-concerns-may-prevent-league-from-allowing-williams-to-coach-again/

Liability concerns may prevent league from allowing Williams to coach again

Posted by Mike Florio on April 9, 2012, 2:04 PM EDT

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/08/williams-remarks-brings-injury-reports-back-into-focus/

Williams’ remarks brings injury reports back into focus

Posted by Mike Florio on April 8, 2012, 10:43 AM EDT

[woodbuck27]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/08/leroy-butler-thinks-theres-a-fine-line-in-pregame-speeches/

LeRoy Butler thinks there’s a fine line in pregame speeches

Posted by Josh Alper on April 8, 2012, 10:21 AM EDT

[Fritz]

Typical of the NFL to find a scapegoat (Williams) in order not to have to confront the essentially brutal nature of the game. On the one hand, the NFL goes out of its way to emphasize the hyper-masculinity of the game, featuring "bone-jarring hits" and such during "highlights" from games, but on the other hand the NFL pretends there are clear, easily-observable boundaries.

They'd like to have it both ways. And to get to that end, they need scapegoats to stand in, like scapegoats do, for the real problems, which then can remain blissfully hidden as the NFL rakes in gajillions of dollars.

[Pugger]

There is a fine line between applying big hits and paying players extra coin for purposely injuring players. Going after ACL's and concussions can threaten players' careers. Players do get hurt in this game but it is sick to headhunt others. Gregg Williams crossed that line and will no doubt never coach again.

[sharpe1027]

Are you saying someone who advertises that their stuff is unguarded and there for the taking is responsible behavior?

No.

My problem is that there's a general feeling out there that there's only one side responsible for these actions. I agree that it's a scumbag move, but I disagree with the premise that going after injured players is unexpected or wrong.

So scumbag moves are not wrong? I think you're splitting hairs pretty damn thin. I said nothing about it being unexpected.

Most people speed. It's almost accepted here in Wisconsin that you can go 5 miles over the limit without getting pulled over. Everyone also knows that the faster you drive, the more likely accidents are. The difference between going 25 and 30 can be the difference between clipping a dude who walks out between a pair of cars and not. Sure, it's a scumbag move to speed in a residential neighborhood, but it's also the dude who walks out from between some cars' fault as well.

I don't really equate driving 5 miles over the speed limit to intentionally trying to injure someone. Driving 5 miles over the speed limit might increase likelihood of accidents, but they are still accidents, not intentional acts. Now if your driving instructor taught you to swerve to hit pedestrians, your analogy might be a little closer.

End of the day, I don't think a coach should be excused for teaching players to injure other players. I don't give a damn if the opposing player is somewhat injured. It is wrong in, my opinion. You disagree. I think your an unethical bastard for disagreeing, but that's just my personal opinion.

[woodbuck27]

Typical of the NFL to find a scapegoat (Williams) in order not to have to confront the essentially brutal nature of the game. On the one hand, the NFL goes out of its way to emphasize the hyper-masculinity of the game, featuring "bone-jarring hits" and such during "highlights" from games, but on the other hand the NFL pretends there are clear, easily-observable boundaries.

They'd like to have it both ways. And to get to that end, they need scapegoats to stand in, like scapegoats do, for the real problems, which then can remain blissfully hidden as the NFL rakes in gajillions of dollars.

Nope ! The word 'scapegoat' does NOT apply here.

Thinking of 'Greg Williams' and the word ... 'GOAT' ... does.

[woodbuck27]

No.



So scumbag moves are not wrong? I think you're splitting hairs pretty damn thin. I said nothing about it being unexpected.



I don't really equate driving 5 miles over the speed limit to intentionally trying to injure someone. Driving 5 miles over the speed limit might increase likelihood of accidents, but they are still accidents, not intentional acts. Now if your driving instructor taught you to swerve to hit pedestrians, your analogy might be a little closer.

End of the day, I don't think a coach should be excused for teaching players to injure other players. I don't give a damn if the opposing player is somewhat injured. It is wrong in, my opinion. You disagree. I think your an unethical bastard for disagreeing, but that's just my personal opinion.

Whoa ! Calm down men. It's being taken care of ..... PROPERLY.

[sharpe1027]

Whoa ! Calm down men. It's being taken care of ..... PROPERLY.

I am calm. Lighten up Francis.

[pbmax]

I am calm. Lighten up Francis.

Your going on the list Winger.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Typical of the NFL to find a scapegoat (Williams) in order not to have to confront the essentially brutal nature of the game. On the one hand, the NFL goes out of its way to emphasize the hyper-masculinity of the game, featuring "bone-jarring hits" and such during "highlights" from games, but on the other hand the NFL pretends there are clear, easily-observable boundaries.

They'd like to have it both ways. And to get to that end, they need scapegoats to stand in, like scapegoats do, for the real problems, which then can remain blissfully hidden as the NFL rakes in gajillions of dollars.

While I believe that Williams got what he deserved, there's a kernal of truth to Fritz's point. The NFL has glorified this type of "bone-jarring" play for years and now it's coming back to bite them in the ass. They are now going to have to against decades of promoting this type of play and some coaches and players are going to have to pay for it.