Two DE's that are NOT one-dimensional!!

[woodbuck27]

If you're talking about day 2 or later guys, absolutely Wole or Crick fit the bill.

But if you're looking for day 1 DEs that aren't one dimensional, those aren't the guys I'd name. I'd rather have Cox, Still, Brockers, Worthy, or Reyes than any of them. None of those guys are one dimensional either.

After those 7, your best bet for a 5-tech that can do it all is probably Akiem Hicks on day 3. He's raw (played in Canada), but he's got great tools.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1118967-2012-nfl-mock-draft-2-round-projection-four-weeks-prior-to-draft-day

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/mock-drafts

My analysis based in MOCK's I see and that change frequently: (-:

GM Ted Thompson would have to trade up 'a ton of picks' to secure Fletcher Cox DT Mississippi State.He'll be gone before mid first round.

Whitney Mercilus DE, Illinois and Michael Brockers DT, LSU will likely be gone by pick #28. Jerel Worthy DT, Michigan State might be there at #28 but that's sketchy. Kendall Reyes DT, Connecticut will be drafted in round two before the middle of round 2.

My Question for you Lurker64:

If you were going to use Pick #28 ? Do you like Nick Perry DE/OLB USC if he was available? How about Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama ?

[woodbuck27]

He may be stout but he is also going to play OLB for the Packers if he gets drafted, not DE.

His size and speed make him a fit at OLB. This prospect Shea McLellin loves to play football.I mean he's keen and in the game.

I enjoyed seeing his motor but I recall also enjoying AJ Hawk play in College.The thing we see is this straight ahed power and speed combining on some plays to get pressure on a QB and sometimes strip the ball or sack that QB but i also see these fellows completly trapped tothe side of a play.I want to see the prospect be able to drop into coverage and possibly make plays doing that.

As I recall Hawk in College he was fine straight ahead and on sideline pursiut. He didn't show drop coverage (again) as I recall watching him on video.

I'm at a certain disadvantage simply using the internet for analysis.

GO PACK GO !

[Fritz]

If I recall correctly, Justin Harrell was the prototypical size for DE in the 3-4. What a shame he got hurt that last time. I really thought he was going to make it.

[woodbuck27]

Wolfe would seem to be stouter than Crick. Wolfe is 6'5" 295and 33 1/4" arms, Crick is 6'4" 279 and 32" arms. If you were to hire Victor Frankenstein to build you a 3-4 DE, the resulting project would spec like Wolfe. Well, more like Wolfe than Crick.

You can see in Justin's videos whether that translates on the field or not.

I watched Crick and he's not bad but something about him doesn't get me studderin' hot to have him in the Green n' Gold. I'm going to watch Wolfe right now and compare the two... based on these LINKS.

Lend my humble Packer fan perspective.

[Lurker64]

The really troubling thing about Crick is that if you watch Nebraska games when he was healthy (not youtube highlights, but actual games) he spends an inordinate amount of time on the ground. There is absolutely nothing positive that a defensive lineman can do from a prone position, so that definitely makes you worry. Playing with a DL on the ground is like playing with 10 guys.

[woodbuck27]

I watched Crick and he's not bad but something about him doesn't get me studderin' hot to have him in the Green n' Gold. I'm going to watch Wolfe right now and compare the two... based on these LINKS.

Lend my humble Packer fan perspective.

OK I'm back and Is it just me or is it obvious:

Derek Wolfe Over Jared Crick by alot. Derek Wolfe looks awesome

This too helps me to lean more to Derek Wolfe. He was 2011 Big East Defensive Player Of The Year.

DT DEREK WOLFE, Cincinnati = Nice pick for some team. Then it's another wait and see.

Where is he when TT's is on the clock? I like OLB Courtney Upshaw, Alabama as a realistic prospect. I like USCs DE Nick Perry but he'll be gome before #28.

TT is going to pick a solid pass rusher.

[RashanGary]

The whole "I don't look at people who don't get stats" argument is ridiculous, since that puts a huge onus on what sort of scheme and position a guy played in college, rather than the scheme and position a guy will play in the NFL. I mean, if a guy is asked to read two gaps, he's going to have fewer sacks and TFLs than a guy who's just told to get up field.

I mean, our leading pass rusher got more sacks in his rookie year than he did in four years at USC (Clay Matthews had 5 sacks in his entire college career.) I

If you're going to look at numbers sacks, tackles, etc. are not the numbers you want to look at. I mean, Jarius Wynn only had 4 fewer sacks last year than Cullen Jenkins had in 2010, which is not indicative of the dropoff at that position.

Yep, which is why I'm not a scout, and can't dig up diamonds in the rough. I can find a few players who have put it all together in college but for some reason, the draft niks just completely overlook them. These two are big guys who can hunker down. They're proven sack guys, proven athletes and play like studs. They look like 1st rounders to me.

I don't even pretend to know who the guys who have done very little in college, but will be probowlers are. There are too many great athletes who suck at football for me to play that game. I use what I know (production, athletic ability and the eyeball test) to find a few guys who are underrated each year. I think for what's available to us (and I don't read the crap on draft sites, it's too unreliable) I'm able to come up with a surprisingly reliable small group of guys who will be hella good players. And I don't like to use the top prospects. I use the guys who look exactly like the top prospects, but aren't getting any hype. It's sort of a way for me to see if my system works. Picking the top 10 players wouldn't prove anything.

[RashanGary]

OK I'm back and Is it just me or is it obvious:

Derek Wolfe Over Jared Crick by alot. Derek Wolfe looks awesome

This too helps me to lean more to Derek Wolfe. He was 2011 Big East Defensive Player Of The Year.

DT DEREK WOLFE, Cincinnati = Nice pick for some team. Then it's another wait and see.

Where is he when TT's is on the clock? I like OLB Courtney Upshaw, Alabama as a realistic prospect. I like USCs DE Nick Perry but he'll be gome before #28.

TT is going to pick a solid pass rusher.

That's my opinion too. Proven player. Proven athlete. Looks like a beast (moreso than Crick and he's bigger) This guy is going to go high. I'd bet on it. Crick is more of a 4-3 power end/specialty player in a 3-4. Sort of a Kampman type but a little bigger. A rich mans Hargrove. You'd want a big OLB behind him to protect against the run. Wolfe is a prototype 3-4 DE. There is no cardboard box on what a 3-4 DE has to be. Sometimes it's nice to mix it up and let your DE pin his ears back on first down. There's nothing better than a guy who lines up 4 feet away from the QB jumping a gap and laying the QB on his ass before he knows what's coming.

I'm actually backing off Crick a little after I saw Wolfe. Crick will be a player. Wolfe seems like a guy who could be a star.

[pbmax]

The really troubling thing about Crick is that if you watch Nebraska games when he was healthy (not youtube highlights, but actual games) he spends an inordinate amount of time on the ground. There is absolutely nothing positive that a defensive lineman can do from a prone position, so that definitely makes you worry. Playing with a DL on the ground is like playing with 10 guys.

The opossum technique.

[Fritz]

Is he on his back in submission?

[Lurker64]

Is he on his back in submission?

I think it's just a balance thing. He gets easily off balance and gets knocked down by OTs. The same way we can indicate a pass rusher's got great balance as a plus, I think Crick is the opposite.

Wolfe, I like though. I think if he can get some sand in his pants, he can be a Justin Smith type. Early on he's not going to be able to stand up to a double-team though. So I wouldn't mind him, but the slot has to be right.

It's the same way with the ORST CB/FS Hardin, I love him as a prospect but wouldn't want Ted to touch him before the third at the earliest (and most likely in the fourth.)

[woodbuck27]

That's my opinion too. Proven player. Proven athlete. Looks like a beast (moreso than Crick and he's bigger) This guy is going to go high. I'd bet on it. Crick is more of a 4-3 power end/specialty player in a 3-4. Sort of a Kampman type but a little bigger. A rich mans Hargrove. You'd want a big OLB behind him to protect against the run. Wolfe is a prototype 3-4 DE. There is no cardboard box on what a 3-4 DE has to be. Sometimes it's nice to mix it up and let your DE pin his ears back on first down. There's nothing better than a guy who lines up 4 feet away from the QB jumping a gap and laying the QB on his ass before he knows what's coming.

I'm actually backing off Crick a little after I saw Wolfe. Crick will be a player. Wolfe seems like a guy who could be a star.

JH what are your opinions on DE/OLB Nick Perry and LB Courtney Upshaw? If available at #28 would you choose someone else over either of these two prospects?

[Smeefers]

I like Courtney Upshaw cause he has a cool name. I'd look great on a football trading card.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The opossum technique.

He'll be unstoppable if he can secrete that anal juice that makes others think he's dead like the possum can. He won't need to get need to get near the QB to distract him, just be upwind of him.

[RashanGary]

Just watched Nick Perry. To be honest, I think Wolfe is a better player. Wolf seems to play with better leverage, gets the OL off balance and blows up plays. Both of them get after the QB. Perry seems to do it more with speed, Wolfe more with explosiveness and leverage. Wolfe finishes harder too.

Perry is a big guy for what he does. His game though, he's kind of an all around pass rusher. He actually gets the corner. I don't think he's stout enough to play 5 tech right now. I didn't see him blow up any OL. Wolfe did. I know Perry is big, but the way he gets shoved around and the way he can get the edge, I think he'd fit a little better as a 4-3 DE / Nickle pass rusher. Reminds me a lot of CJ Wilson in college the way he rushes the passer, and I know that's not a big compliment.