This man can hit ! LB Vontaze Burfict...The Meanest Man in College.

[woodbuck27]

Errrrr.......yes. Constantly.


Or was that supposed to be one of those rhetorical question thingies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

NO Scott. I act in terms of myself I don't load CRAP on Mad's plate. Sometimes it gets there but it's not there because of an intentional stab at a member here in the manner in which you FLAME constantly.

It's never there because you or any other member here can intimadate me. You've known me long enough to realize that's the TRUTH.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.csnwashington.com/04/09/12/Burfict-back-in-the-picture/landing.html?blockID=685560&feedID=6703

“He just hasn’t tested well; he hasn’t performed well in the measuring sticks off the field. It happens from time to time. Guys do fall,” Ravens college scouting director Joe Hortiz said last week at the team’s pre-draft luncheon. “It’s just he’s a junior who came out with a lot of buzz and he’s had such a hard time that the media is swallowing it up and eating it and running with it. It happens, but this one seems a little bit more magnified.”

But an interesting happened when Burfict’s name came up at the pre-draft event. Erc DeCosta, the team’s (Ravens) director of player personnel, jumped into the conversation.

“What I would say is we don’t drop him (in the rankings); you (media) guys drop him.

We watch the tape, and we know where they belong,” DeCosta said.

“We look at all the various things and say, ‘That’s crazy. That’s never going to happen.’ And usually it ends up that way, but we just watch the tape. We don’t have any kind of a flowing list where a guy goes from being second in the draft to being 100th in the draft overnight. Nobody knows, but it doesn’t work like that for us.”

I’m hearing that to mean that while Burfict might have fallen to a third-round prospect, don’t discount the possibility of the Ravens grabbing him at that slot as a classic “value” pick, a guy with first-round talent whose stock dropped for reasons ...

that might not matter once he is playing in the NFL." Article

Comment woodbuck27:

There is where I'm trying to get to Packerrats in terms of this thread. This particular once dominant National College talent. This Super First Round Pick>>>>>> to the cellar. Why? That didn't make sense to me. I need to know why? If I know that I can factor that mkan in or out of my plans. That's all that makes sense to me.

Talent and production is just what it is? If you can get this man and pay attention to why? he blows or why? he ran a slow 40 yard time?

You might have a really incredible asset for your team. I'm not here informing you 'that's the case'. I'm just informing you that any of the ...'well he's CRAZY so forget him' commentary doesn't work for me. That's unacceptable in terms of me needing to know.

[MadScientist]

I get the bad-ass nature that you like about him. He definitely has that, and it is a good thing to have in a LB. Haven't seen it around here since Wayne Simmons. The problem is the red flags. Enough that it is a huge risk to take him early. His production was down considerably last year, in large part because his coaches couldn't trust him. Because of that the combine was very important for him. Had he prepped better and put up better numbers then his stock would not have dropped so much. Because his numbers were not good that will make some concerned that he is not as talented as the initial impressions were. The bad interviews suggest that the problem was more him than his coaches, so there is a real risk that the NFL coaches won't be enough to mold him correctly. If I were a GM I would start considering him in from the 5th round on. That's a good place to start with the hit and miss prospects. He could be the next Ray Lewis, but he could also easily be the next training camp cut.

Not that there is nothing to indicate that the Baltmore guy actually has a high or even mid-round grade on the guy, you can read his statement several ways.

[Joemailman]

I wouldn't mind taking him in the 5th or later. Just tell Greene to knock the shit out of him if he gets out of line. You never know if being surrounded by players with more stature than him might cause an attitude adjustment.

[Deputy Nutz]

You don't take any time to consider why he ran that 5.09 40 yard dash? I want to know what happened to that man on that day Deputy Nutz. What has been happening to that man? I believe there's something for us to learn here centering on this once so highly touted prospect.

It's not enough for me to just read posts her likie...'Ohh he was crazy (went crazY) or insane or has Bi-Polor Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder or has this or that mentle illness'. What are the facts concerning such claims or rumors
RE: Vontaze Burfict Vs 'a reality'?
That's where I desire to have this thread focused. Thanks. (-:


GO FAVRE!

I took the time to recognize the 5.09 forty is average for a defensive linemen, 5.09 forty for a linebacker means he is slow, regardless of his mental handicaps. He wasn't vastly overweight, he didn't report any injuries, and he chose to run regardless if he was injured or not.

They guy crapped out, and that can't be changed, he is talented, but he failed the most important test of his life at the combine, what does that tell you? He can't handle the pressure? He cracked up? He has a psychological disorders that he is not seeking the appropriate help with? Seems like another case of wasted talent, even if that talent can only run a 5.09 forty.

I was a big fan of his, but his play on the field was a chaotic mess, even in 2010, he would test his instincts too much. what happens in the NFL when he doesn't like his coaches? Is he going to free lance, and play like a retard? He isn't special enough to draft at this point. If he would have at least passed the physical test at the combine then he would at least be intriguing, right now he is just a failure. Janoris Jenkins is a criminal that has 4 children with 3 different women, he is a loser, but at least he is intriguing because he proved he has the tools to perform on the field.

[Lurker64]

There is where I'm trying to get to Packerrats in terms of this thread. This particular once dominant National College talent. This Super First Round Pick>>>>>> to the cellar. Why? That didn't make sense to me. I need to know why? If I know that I can factor that mkan in or out of my plans. That's all that makes sense to me.

Talent and production is just what it is? If you can get this man and pay attention to why? he blows or why? he ran a slow 40 yard time?

You might have a really incredible asset for your team. I'm not here informing you 'that's the case'. I'm just informing you that any of the ...'well he's CRAZY so forget him' commentary doesn't work for me. That's unacceptable in terms of me needing to know.

I think what honestly what DeCosta really means is "we didn't get as excited about his 2010 tape as you guys did. Sure, he made some plays splashy plays, and that's what the media pays attention to, but he also freelanced, was out of position a lot, and made a lot of stupid mistakes. The 2011 tape wasn't good either, since he freelanced, played stupid, and also played timid. I mean, if he was as good a player as the media thought going into 2011, he wouldn't have gotten benched by his coaches as often as he did, right?"

Which is to say, the Ravens aren't dropping him because he had a bad combine, the Ravens likely already had him down around where he's ranked before the combine.

Since sure, he had a terrible combine and that alone shouldn't torpedo you, but some combination of "bad combine", "bad interviews", "bad 2011 tape" and "his coaches hated him" is going to indicate some problems with a prospect.

This is a key difference between media scouts and actual scouts. Media scouts don't hate anybody, because they work in the media and don't want to damage their relationship (or their employers' relationship) with any player in case that guy turns out to be great. Actual scouts hate almost everybody, since it's basically their job to figure out why a guy is a bum, since the overwhelming majority of the players they look at will not be drafted by the team that employs them. If you've ever talked to one, you will know that they can be ornery cusses, since "being opinionated" is a plus in this business (for example professional scout, who has worked for the Packers, Dave-Te Thomas hates Perry, Poe, Still, and doesn't like Upshaw.) No one who works at ESPN in a draft capacity will admit to disliking all four of those guys, at least not on camera.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Another story of a guy with a million dollar body but a 2 cent head. There's been loads of those throughout the years in every sport. Why they are that way who knows, but it's not like this guy is some anomily.

[woodbuck27]

I get the bad-ass nature that you like about him. He definitely has that, and it is a good thing to have in a LB. Haven't seen it around here since Wayne Simmons. The problem is the red flags. Enough that it is a huge risk to take him early. His production was down considerably last year, in large part because his coaches couldn't trust him. Because of that the combine was very important for him. Had he prepped better and put up better numbers then his stock would not have dropped so much. Because his numbers were not good that will make some concerned that he is not as talented as the initial impressions were. The bad interviews suggest that the problem was more him than his coaches, so there is a real risk that the NFL coaches won't be enough to mold him correctly. If I were a GM I would start considering him in from the 5th round on. That's a good place to start with the hit and miss prospects. He could be the next Ray Lewis, but he could also easily be the next training camp cut.

Not that there is nothing to indicate that the Baltmore guy actually has a high or even mid-round grade on the guy, you can read his statement several ways.

I would simply get that fella in for a workout. I want him to run faster than what 5.09 Seconds in the 40 yard sprint. This fella ..that position. I don't even spend a minute wondering about some slow timed speed wherever. he's in now for me to look at. I certainly believe by now or because he's in Green Bay that we both know he will motor. He'd better motor. If he doesn't then lunch will be simple.

After the workout and lunch maybe a stroll in a park with loads of pedestrian traffic. Don't forget the muzzle!?

Nope don't need that caution....unless I observe him filing his teeth.

Then....take Mr. Burfict out for some decent food and maybe a beer or two. Ask him if he had any preference for some later entertainment ie bowling/maybe shoot some stick? Get him to bed a tad late. Give him an alarm clock.

Inform him of the morning workout 'in pads'. Get him salivating that Mike Mccarthy will be in attendance and wants to belly bump with him. See if he has......a sense of humour.

Yup ! Vontaze....up at 9 AM. Hangover!?? Too bad ...so sad. Wanna be a PACKER?

Ask him how he enjoyed yesterday in Green Bay? Ask him all kinds of questions to see his cool.

Ask him about his family and Friends. Any 'Special relationships' questions are 'off limits'. Sorry Fritz.

Has he ever imagined being a Green Pay Packer? Does he know anything about Packer history and who was Vince Lombardi? Ask him to finish the sentence..."Show me a good loser and ...."

Get him some lunch ...some really spicy food. Tacos might get there if there's a half decent Mexican joint in The County....

Maybe a couple of hot dogs 'all dresed' as well. This boy looks like he can eat hahaaha.... ' DO NOT'.... SERVE HIM anything raw...like Sushi ....OK fish might be fine... but RARE Steak with lots of blood running all over his plate and drippin' off his chin...NOPE! We do NOT need to see that........ ever !

and .....well again.... feed him a couple of beers. Maybe a shooter or two something like...tee kill yaa. Then observe him...quietly and unassumedly ........observe him.

I would check this man out !!! If he checked out A..OK. Then I would inform him that 'the Green Bay Packers' have an interest in him and >>> 'just' demonstrated that TRUTH.

I would compare this man to many many others including those I might draft in rounds 1-3. Really it comes down to limiting RISK. It has sweet 'D' all to do with media driven hype 'positive or negative'. Ignore the bullshit.

It comes down to ...YOU the GM or Scout or Head of Player Personal or the Special Assistant 'to whatever' and >>> giving every prospect you might have a real interst in:

A FAIR SHAKE !

By the way I'm not high on this possible prospect. I'm 'only really interested' in Votaze Burfict 'the human being'...the person. I would show an interest in him if he was on my radar as a possible prospect.

Maybe I will keen up on Vontaze Burfict the LBer and 2012 Draft prospect if i could assess him more deservedly.

[woodbuck27]

I wouldn't mind taking him in the 5th or later. Just tell Greene to knock the shit out of him if he gets out of line. You never know if being surrounded by players with more stature than him might cause an attitude adjustment.

Just walking into Lambeu Field will cause an attitude adjustment as long as he recently visited the mens room he shoud be OK for about 45 minutes before he gets the shits again.

[woodbuck27]

I took the time to recognize the 5.09 forty is average for a defensive linemen, 5.09 forty for a linebacker means he is slow, regardless of his mental handicaps. He wasn't vastly overweight, he didn't report any injuries, and he chose to run regardless if he was injured or not.

They guy crapped out, and that can't be changed, he is talented, but he failed the most important test of his life at the combine, what does that tell you? He can't handle the pressure? He cracked up? He has a psychological disorders that he is not seeking the appropriate help with? Seems like another case of wasted talent, even if that talent can only run a 5.09 forty.

I was a big fan of his, but his play on the field was a chaotic mess, even in 2010, he would test his instincts too much. what happens in the NFL when he doesn't like his coaches? Is he going to free lance, and play like a retard? He isn't special enough to draft at this point. If he would have at least passed the physical test at the combine then he would at least be intriguing, right now he is just a failure. Janoris Jenkins is a criminal that has 4 children with 3 different women, he is a loser, but at least he is intriguing because he proved he has the tools to perform on the field.

Good post Deputy. Your saying that based on your honest assessment of Vontaze Burfict that he's NOT worth future consideration.You back up why? you came to that conclusion. Nice job.

[Fritz]

But you can't assess him more deservedly, Wood. None of us can. You'd have to be an actual scout, watch hours and hours of film, talk to the guy's coaches, talk to friends and acquantances, and talk to the guy himself. You'd have to watch him at the combine or at his pro day, having also watched dozens and dozens of other guys playing the same position. You'd have to talk with other scouts from other regions and compare notes.

That's why Thompson - and the Ravens scout - are correct when they say most of us, including the so-called experts like Mike MayCock or SMell Pipejob, don't know a damn thing about how players are actually assessed.

[woodbuck27]

" If you've ever talked to one, you will know that they can be ornery cusses, since "being opinionated" is a plus in this business (for example professional scout, who has worked for the Packers, Dave-Te Thomas hates Perry, Poe, Still, and doesn't like Upshaw.) No one who works at ESPN in a draft capacity will admit to disliking all four of those guys, at least not on camera. " Lurker64

There is the kind of reporting that IMO makes Packerrats awesome and backs up my feeling that we have some of the very BEST NFL fans of any internet site.

Let's make it better Packerrats. Let's GROW.

[woodbuck27]

But you can't assess him more deservedly, Wood. None of us can. You'd have to be an actual scout, watch hours and hours of film, talk to the guy's coaches, talk to friends and acquantances, and talk to the guy himself. You'd have to watch him at the combine or at his pro day, having also watched dozens and dozens of other guys playing the same position. You'd have to talk with other scouts from other regions and compare notes.

That's why Thompson - and the Ravens scout - are correct when they say most of us, including the so-called experts like Mike MayCock or SMell Pipejob, don't know a damn thing about how players are actually assessed.

Exactly Fritz and in this thread like many others. When we focus on the key issue (s) We can arrive at a conclusion in concert here. It damn hard to do that when some clown offers no more than peanut shells.

I'm fun .... I'm also serious. I'm serious about the health of the Packers. I don't want to have to wait ** another 14 seasons before they get to another Super Bowl Championship. In 14 years my time in the 40 yard sprint will likely be in the 5.09 seconds range. Isn't that ridiculous ! I 'only' weigh in at about 182 lbs.

** I don't ever imagine that TT can accomplish enough to get that done this season but maybe? in three. I hope so. If TT takes longer than 3 seasons I still won't hate him. I promise.

[MadScientist]

Few more tidbits. He did manage to improve his 40 times at a workout on March 30th to ~4.8, so he is not hideously slow, but not all that fast. He did not do the 3 cone or shuttle at the combine (which seem to be TT's preferred numbers). At the pro-day on March 16th he did about 16 reps on the press, and reportedly did poorly in the position drills.

I don't see anything else to be gained by bringing him in for a workout. There just isn't that much more to learn since they've had several chances to see him and interview him if they wanted to (I don't have any list of who the Packers interviewed at the combine). TT usually reserves the limited number of allowed private workouts for 7th round to UFA's that they haven't had a good chance to see in person. Given the Packers success with the UFA's, I wouldn't want that to change.

[Lurker64]

This is worth a look on Burfict: http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2...his-thing.html