One Exec "Packers Have Much Work To Do"

[Fritz]

"It doesn't matter if they can't play, or they simply don't have the talent - TT brought them in and spent the last 2-3 years developing them. Lattimore is your starting ROLB; and Muir/Hargrove is all that is needed on the DL - from TT's POV, that is the end of the discussion."

I like you and all, Wist, but this is a ridiculous statement. It hearkens back to the old "TT cuts guys he didn't draft or sign and keeps loser players just because he drafted them."

You keep acting like Thompson acts out of spite - screw defense, who needs that? We're going to show Brent Favre he wasn't that great by developing an elite super-offense, which means paying attention to offense and ignoring defense!"

ANY GM who operated with that kind of mindset that you describe would not win a Super Bowl, nor would he be able to win 15 games the following season. It's just ridiculous reasoning, Wist. Seriously.

You could argue that Thompson has flubbed some picks, or that his emphasis on BPA might've cost the defense, or that re-signing Cullen Jenkins, even if it meant not being able to afford Finley (or maybe you could sign Finley but not Jennings) would've been worth the cost....but you can't argue that Thompson's massive ego and his simple lack of care about the defense is driving his decision making. Well, you can try, but your credibility will be in the toilet.

[pittstang5]

"It doesn't matter if they can't play, or they simply don't have the talent - TT brought them in and spent the last 2-3 years developing them. Lattimore is your starting ROLB; and Muir/Hargrove is all that is needed on the DL - from TT's POV, that is the end of the discussion."

I like you and all, Wist, but this is a ridiculous statement. It hearkens back to the old "TT cuts guys he didn't draft or sign and keeps loser players just because he drafted them."

You keep acting like Thompson acts out of spite - screw defense, who needs that? We're going to show Brent Favre he wasn't that great by developing an elite super-offense, which means paying attention to offense and ignoring defense!"

ANY GM who operated with that kind of mindset that you describe would not win a Super Bowl, nor would he be able to win 15 games the following season. It's just ridiculous reasoning, Wist. Seriously.

You could argue that Thompson has flubbed some picks, or that his emphasis on BPA might've cost the defense, or that re-signing Cullen Jenkins, even if it meant not being able to afford Finley (or maybe you could sign Finley but not Jennings) would've been worth the cost....but you can't argue that Thompson's massive ego and his simple lack of care about the defense is driving his decision making. Well, you can try, but your credibility will be in the toilet.

Well said....

[Bretsky]

I love having Wist back; I can call myself the optimist agani

Wist, you do realize TT got us a SB and we went 15-2 last year, right ?


With that being said, if TT drafts offense in even two of the first three rounds Wist walks on water in terms of his predictions !!!

[mraynrand]

I see that you are also part of the"Protect the Prince" plan.

nice try, strawman

So then you are saying that TT is just terrible at generating a consistent defense?

he is so-so with regards to consistency on defense. Some of that may be McCarthy's fault as well. When you hire an offensive-minded coach, that can lead to some struggles on defense. Given the direction of rule changes and the overall arc of the league over the past decade or two, it seems madness to go with a defense-first approach.

[mraynrand]

Thats your option but I disagree, I'm sure that TT and everyone on the team would disagree with you as well.

Jordy Nelson showed how critical the 4/5 receiver can be. helped win the Superbowl. If you go solid 5 deep, you create mismatches other teams just can't handle. The Driver sit will be hashed out in camp. I suspect there will be a WR from the draft that will push Driver as well. I expect Driver to come into camp in top physical shape to dance his way onto the roster. If they think he has slipped a notch, he will get released very early and sign with Cleveland.

[pbmax]

I think Patler had a post last year, following his post of the year prior to that that Thompson has ignored neither the defense nor the O line, both charges he has been hit with.

His "hit rate" in both positions is about the same as others as well. But injuries have left him with the depth you see elsewhere.

I agree with the assessment of the run defense failures. However, they had as much to do with Raji at nose versus Pickett as they did with the RDE and Walden. And Raji's talent/measurables are pretty undeniable. That was on the player and his coaches. He did not put it together until the Giants game. Its possible he was affected by the poor play of the RDE, leaving him with more ground to cover. But the Giant game proved him capable of it. He was moved and turned too easily too often during the season.

wist has a point about the low ebb of talent in the front seven, but it isn't all from a lack of attention in the draft or FA.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I hate a draft where you got to sit around and wait for the 28th pick. HArd to get excited about the 5th best DE or OT in the draft. Hopefully TT will fix this.

[Bretsky]

At Pick #28 TT might just surprise us and pick the top C in draft or the 2nd best RB in the draft. .........hmm.....

[Bretsky]

I think Patler had a post last year, following his post of the year prior to that that Thompson has ignored neither the defense nor the O line, both charges he has been hit with.

His "hit rate" in both positions is about the same as others as well. But injuries have left him with the depth you see elsewhere.

I agree with the assessment of the run defense failures. However, they had as much to do with Raji at nose versus Pickett as they did with the RDE and Walden. And Raji's talent/measurables are pretty undeniable. That was on the player and his coaches. He did not put it together until the Giants game. Its possible he was affected by the poor play of the RDE, leaving him with more ground to cover. But the Giant game proved him capable of it. He was moved and turned too easily too often during the season.

wist has a point about the low ebb of talent in the front seven, but it isn't all from a lack of attention in the draft or FA.

Everything went to helll once Jenkins left....

His failure ratio on the DL would appear to be higher than on the offensive side

He got Raji

Other than that right now we've got between JAG and JUNK for the rest of the DL. Maybe they will all develop......and ftr, I did like Neal and still have some blind faith in him

[Brandon494]

At Pick #28 TT might just surprise us and pick the top C in draft or the 2nd best RB in the draft. .........hmm.....

If there is no a defensive player he likes when its our turn to pick I will guarantee he'll trade down before he selects an offensive player.

[mraynrand]

wist has a point about the low ebb of talent in the front seven, but it isn't all from a lack of attention in the draft or FA.

4/6 first round picks, and those picks at #5, #9, #16 and #26 overall - all blown on just the front seven - hell even Mike Neal was #56. That's a highly disproportionate emphasis on the front seven. If TT really eschewed defense in favor offense he would have picked Vernon Davis over Hawk, for example. TT may suck and/or be unlucky picking front seven guys, but there's a huge emphasis there, not a lack thereof.

[Upnorth]

I like the assessment by the "personnel man", but he really doesn't understand TT or the Packer philosophy. The Packers only care about offense... and the Packers never have "levels of urgency".

"'They pick the best player available,' the personnel man said. '"But let's face it. It's about levels of urgency.'"

Other teams may have "levels of urgency", but not the Packers. TT's philosophy says that Lattimore will step in at ROLB, and Hargrove and Muir are all that is needed on the DL. To TT, there are no problems on the roster, there is no "urgency", and there is no need to move up or down in the draft to "fill holes". By TT's reckoning, there are no holes.

This is TT's 8th draft as Packer GM. His philosophy says that all of his developmental guys that he brought in in the past 2-3 years are ready to step into the starting lineup in 2012. It doesn't matter if they can't play, or they simply don't have the talent - TT brought them in and spent the last 2-3 years developing them. Lattimore is your starting ROLB; and Muir/Hargrove is all that is needed on the DL - from TT's POV, that is the end of the discussion.

I fully expect TT to focus on offense again in this draft... which as I've been saying is just as well. The Packers are good at evaluating offensive players - they suck at evaluating defensive players; so we might as well go with our strength, and avoid making mistakes in an attempt to field a defense.

At this point?? Screw it... we might as well just admit what we are, and quit trying to pretend defense is actually a part of the game. Winning games 50-48 is the same as winning 13-10. Of course good defensive teams will kick the fuck out of us in the playoffs, ala the Giants, but winning championships isn't the goal. Developing players is the goal.

So our defence in 2009 and 2010 was poor in your opinion? I though they were at least decent and arguably elite, as did many others. I guess 2011 eliminates the previous couple of years.
Did we have one of the worst pass rushes ever last year? Yes.
Was the defence a complete joke? Hell no.

If we can get another Jolly or Jenkins I think we would quickly step up to elite again, especially if Collins comes back.

[wist43]

I love having Wist back; I can call myself the optimist agani

Wist, you do realize TT got us a SB and we went 15-2 last year, right ?


With that being said, if TT drafts offense in even two of the first three rounds Wist walks on water in terms of his predictions !!!

lol...

I don't take away from the success; and of course I agree with TT's approach of building thru the draft... but I don't have blinders on. It's not my fault the Packers front seven is putrid

[Lurker64]

I still wonder how you guys think some guy off the PS is going to beat out Donald Driver.

Most probably Driver is cut before camp and we draft a replacement and the PS guys don't even enter into it. Even at the vet minimum, Driver would make more than a 3rd round pick rookie WR.

[wist43]

So our defence in 2009 and 2010 was poor in your opinion? I though they were at least decent and arguably elite, as did many others. I guess 2011 eliminates the previous couple of years.
Did we have one of the worst pass rushes ever last year? Yes.
Was the defence a complete joke? Hell no.

If we can get another Jolly or Jenkins I think we would quickly step up to elite again, especially if Collins comes back.

We caught lightning in a bottle in our run to the SB. Jenkins was still here and playing at a high level, and everyone else played over their heads. It all came together in perfect timing. That moment in history is just that, history.

Now, Jenkins is gone, Collins is gone, teams have caught up to Capers 2 man front shenanigans, some guys in the secondary seemed to regress, etc... add it all up, and the Packers were a regular season paper tiger, and were predictably stomped by a more physically dominant team.

I agree with the scout when he says the Packers have a lot of work to do... but I'm not sure TT sees it that way. He certainly didn't see any urgency in upgrading the front seven last offseason - whereas I thought it was a glaring weakness. I still see it as a glaring weakness - the question is, can TT read the writing on the wall, or is he still stuck on his obviously flawed evaluations??

Most of you guys on PR think the Packers front seven is fine... TT seems to agree - hence, I figure he won't be motivated by "urgency" or need; hence, he will stick to his BPA, and that is usually weighted to offensive players.

P.S. 6 sacks in 7 games is a joke.