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Originally posted by mraynrand
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Thank God you did that. I was not looking forward to the research project or finding Patler's posts. If I recall, Thompson at one point, was 27 D picks and 26 for O. With the first round tilted to D.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow. -
Rounds 1-3 is 14 offense and 10 defense. It was almost even until last year when TT went offense on 1-3.I can't run no more
With that lawless crowd
While the killers in high places
Say their prayers out loud
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
A thundercloud
They're going to hear from me - Leonard CohenComment
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So then you guys are making the argument that TT sucks at drafting defense then??Originally posted by pbmax View Post
I certainly make that argument. I guess I sometimes forget any effort that goes into fielding a defense b/c those efforts are so often fruitless.
McGinn, makes a reasonable argument here...
"Fortunately for Green Bay, the pool of players that appears suitable to play outside in its scheme runs about 10 deep. In no particular order, the group includes Boise State's Shea McClellin, USC's Nick Perry, South Carolina's Melvin Ingram, Alabama's Courtney Upshaw and Dont'a Hightower, Illinois' Whitney Mercilus, Clemson's Andre Branch, Oklahoma's Ronnell Lewis, West Virginia's Bruce Irvin and Miami's Olivier Vernon...
"... With picks 28, 59 and 90 in the first three rounds, the Packers can be expected to draft at least one of those players. Then again, pass-rushing outside linebackers appeared to be a significant need for the Packers before the 2010 and '11 drafts and Thompson's only move was to take Ricky Elmore in the sixth round last year.
"... Last year, Thompson didn't draft a defensive end until the seventh round, relying on Mike Neal and others to replace the soon-to-depart Jenkins. He also passed at outside linebacker.
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Call me crazy, but I thought we absolutely stunk in the front seven prior to last years draft; and that was before Neal was exposed as a bust (and I liked Neal); TT, and you guys, obviously think we're just fine in the front seven... TT did nothing to upgrade the pass rush, and now here we are a year later with the same players.
I have to assume that if TT, and most of you guys thought we were fine in the front seven last year - we're still fine there this year; hence, it is entirely plausible, if not predictable, that TT will take just about any position ahead of DE/DT/OLB.
As this NFL exec says, "I know this guy," a longtime National Football League personnel director said. "You never have to do anything in Ted's world."
That's our Ted... our entire defense could go down in a plane crash, and Ted would still draft only 4 defenders if the BPA at his other 23 picks were offense. That's Ted.wistComment
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Wist, I think you're misinterpreting what others are saying. They aren't saying that the front seven is fine. They're responding to your assertion that TT pays it no attention. Even you have to be willing to admit that there have been a few events in the last couple of years that have changed the defense dramatically, namely, things like injuries, Jenkins leaving and Jolly having his head up his codeine laden ass."Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg JenningsComment
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I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek... I know TT drafts front seven players, but the results are dismal.Originally posted by MJZiggy View Post
The Packers seem to have better luck evaluating DB's, but even there our starters were two FA's (Shields and Williams), and an UFA in Woodson (who has been all-world). TT hit on Collins after a rocky first few years; the jury is still out on Burnett. So Collins is about all we have to show for 7 years of drafting DB's, and his career is now likely over.
As for the front seven, which is my bone of contention - here is where we stand, and how we got there:
Defensive Line
BJ Raji (1st round)
Ryan Pickett (1st round/FA)
Jarius Wynn (6th round)
CJ Wilson (7th round)
Lawrence Guy (7th round)
Daniel Muir (Street FA)
Anthony Hargrove (orig. 3rd round, street FA)
Mike Neal (2nd round - probable bust)
Linebackers
Clay Matthews (1st round)
A.J. Hawk (1st round)
Desmond Bishop (6th round)
Brad Jones (7th round)
D.J. Smith (6th round)
Erik Walden (6th round – is a free agent)
Robert Francois (undrafted)
Frank Zombo (undrafted)
Vic So ‘oto (undrafted)
Jamari Lattimore (undrafted)
That's a pile of 6th/7th rounders and street FA's. That's putting a lot of faith your coaching staff's ability to "coach 'em up"... at some point, talent matters; and talent tends to get snapped up at the top of the draft.wistComment
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Originally posted by wist43 View Post
Yeah, and then they won 13 more in a row after that fluke run to the SB.Comment
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So your complaint is that TT doesn't draft enough front 7 players in the the fourth round?</delurk>Comment
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TT's had crappy luck drafting D linemen. They either get hurt, flame out or they get addicted to cough syrup. When you only have 2 decent D linemen like we did last season it is no wonder our defense sucked if they couldn't get a turnover.Originally posted by mraynrand View PostComment
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Ted Thompson draft picks in Green Bay by round and position group:
1st
OL (2) Bulaga, Sherrod
DL (2) Harrell, Raji
LB (2) Matthews, Hawk
QB (1) Rodgers
2nd
DB (2) Collins, Lee
WR (4) Murphy, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb
OL (1) Colledge
RB (1) Jackson
QB (1) Brohm
DL (1) Neal
3rd
RB (1) Green
DB (2) Rouse, Burnett
TE (1) Finley
WR (1) J. Jones
LB (1) Hodge
OL (1) Spitz
4th
DB (3) M. Underwood, Blackmon, House
LB (1) Poppinga
WR (1) Rodgers
OL (3) Lang, Barbre, Sitton
DL (1) Thompson
5th
TE (2) Quarless, Williams
OL (5) Newhouse, Meredith, Giacomini, Moll, Coston
RB (1) Johnson
WR (1) Clowney
QB (1) Martin
DB (1) Hawkins
6th
DL (3) Montgomery, Jolly, J. Wynn
WR (1) Bragg
DB (2) Culver, B. Underwood
RB (2) Hall, Starks
LB (3) Bishop, Elmore, Smith
K (1) Crosby
OL (1) Schlauderaff
7th
DB (1) Campbell
OL (1) Whitticker
DL (3) Tollefson, Wilson, Guy
RB (1) D. Wynn
TE (2) Harris, Taylor
QB (1) Flynn
WR (1) Swain
LB (1) B. Jones
Really, the only oddities I've spotted is 7 first round picks went to 4 positions, 4/10 2nd round picks are WRs (glad we have Jennings, Nelson, Cobb), and TT has drafted a whopping 9 OL in the fourth and fifth round (though Lang and Sitton are big time hits, and Newhouse is definitely worth the roster spot.)
Probably the most unusual thing about Ted's drafting is that he seems to value RBs much less than the rest of the NFL.</delurk>Comment
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Thinking back to last years draft, I really think Thompaon and McCarthy saw our defense as a success and growing. They thought Neal would step in...hell, I did too. And I'm sure he thought one of tose other guys would make a step up at ROLB, but they didn't. Last year he couldn't think what will happen when thy fail, he had to go on what they were seeing, and that was of young guys making progress, but they didnt. Can you really fault taking Sherrod, Cobb, or Green? I think all 3 could be significant parts of our future. On the flip side I pull see him having a ver heavy defensive year, but won't be surprised. Could he take a RB or a Konz round 1? Sure....I just don't know what their values are, and only God knows what Thompsons board looks like. Many people are reporting heavy Internet in McClellin, but NE people are saying they have interest also. It's all tongue & cheek right now, but my gut says if teddy likes Shae, he might have to move up. I hate this "packers have a lot of work to do", what team doesn't? NYG are the champs, and if ask me they have some serious issues also. Love draft week! Get ready for BS to fly!"I would love to have a guy that always gets the key hit, a pitcher that always makes his best pitch and a manager that can always make the right decision. The problem is getting him to put down his beer and come out of the stands and do those things." - Danny MurraughComment
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All Hail Wist43 !Originally posted by wist43 View Post
Enough said. If Ted Thompson ignores our defense in this draft. Any hope of the Packers and a Super Bowl within the next three (3) seasons is merely 'a pipe dream'. Any of you that might point to what the bookies are saying today RE: The Green Bay Packers and 'odds on whatever', to win next years Super Bowl; does not realize how important it is for Ted Thompson to make a considerable effort to contribute real talent to our 'D'.
You have to quit on the Ohh Gee we won a Super Bowl in 2010 and we were 15-1 in last years regular season. Don't forget that last loss and we just didn't lose a close one.The New York Giants 'handled our team'. They came to Lambeau Field and knew they would not be denied.
Teams with the worst 'D' in the NFL cannot be expected to go deep in the playoffs and ..... win 'the SUPER BOWL' !! Are you kidding me.
We have to hope to blazes that Ted Thompson has it screwd on right in this draft. That he knows our defensive situation is a major concern. TT must get started or demonstrate a focus on just that April 26-28,2012 or our team slips further away from that Super Bowl 'dream of some here' this season.
In my view. Ted Thompson has to have a realistic plan to get our team back to the BIG GAME in about three seasons.
Wist43 is a poster that calls it hard. He calls it 'bang on'. We are a long ways from any SUPER BOWL. I 'only' hope that Ted Thompson makes the first primary moves required to correct our path this week. He needs talent on 'D' and to get our team a pass rush. He needs talented prospects on 'D' at the front of this draft.
Drafting a DE or OLB in rounds 5-7 is just not cutting it. We are OK at WR and since Ahman Green our running game has been poor. We need backs that can block. We need Aaron Rodgers protected as a criticle focus. I'm feeling a tad shaky about our position at LT.
On Donald Driver. Easily my favourite Green Bay Packer:
As members here we deal with harsh realities in terms of things GREEN BAY PACKER. It stings to read members opinions of the fate of Donald Driver.The TRUTH is DD's value as a Green Bay Packer GREAT and his leadership is about to be shoved away members.
Think Brett Favre >>>Donald Driver.
I trust TT and MM learned something from how they mishandled the whole Brett Favre dismissal. I just hope that this time TT and MM deal with DD honestly. That he's not set up to look 'the fool'.
Donald Driver is a fine man.Last edited by woodbuck27; 04-23-2012, 12:38 AM.** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. ThoreauComment
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First all we aren't going to even draft a WR and 2nd IF Driver was going to be cut TT wouldOriginally posted by Lurker64 View Post
have done so by now. WR and TE are the two positions you will not see us drafting this weekend IMO.
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You know, Brandon is slowly bringing me over to his side about driver. Before it was "my heart says stay, but my head says leave." The closer we get to the season, the more it looks like he's going to be on our team. That would be nice I think. I don't want to loose him, he's one of my favorite guys and before I was certain we'd loose him. Not so much any more.
As for the DL being the worst in the league, that's garbage. I don't know when packer fans are going to realize this, but we play a 3-4 defense now. The front 3 are not intended to regularly get a pass rush. They're there to stop the run and take up blockers and last year the packers were in the middle of the league for stopping the run. They do have serious holes on the right side of the defense though that need to get filled, but I don't think they were the worst defense in the league. That title goes to the Bucs who gave up 30+ points a game. The packers weren't that much better at 23 points a game, but they were by no means the worst.
The sky is not falling.- Once again, adding absolutely nothing to the conversation.Comment
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Lurker64 View Post
Look at those first 4 rounds - 7 years of drafting and all we have to show for it in our front seven is Raji and Matthews.
Harrell and Neal are busts; Hawk is underwhelming; the rest are flipping burgers.
Conversely, on offense... that's quite a pool of talent.
Seems to me, my argument is perfectly supported by that evidence. The Packers are light years better at evaluating and drafting offensive players (especially WR's) than they are defensive players. Based on the evidence, we may in fact be better off strictly focusing on offense in the 1st and 2nd rounds, and then take more flyers on 3rd and 4th round front seven players - players that may be raw and have some holes in their game, but have talent and have upside.
That's my point - and, as I said, I think the evidence backs me up.wistComment
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