One Exec "Packers Have Much Work To Do"

[wist43]

There's usually only a couple selections to make on the first day of the draft. There's 22 starters on a football team. Do the math.

Not everybody can be a superstar. If you're competing for championships, you need your mid to late rounders to step up. That's the deal. No team in the NFL has 22 starters that were all drafted in the first round. At some point you need your coaching staff to coach up the rookies. You need your street FA's to produce when their number is called.

Well, that hasn't happened has it?? The Packers are very strong at evaluating WR's; they're much better at evaluating DB's than they are front seven players...

Wilson sucks; Wynn sucks; Green sucks; Zombo sucks; Walden sucks; Neal sucks; Jones sucks; Francois sucks; Muir sucks; and Hargrove sucks... then behind them you have Lattimore, DJ Smith (who I have some hope for), Vic So'Oto (who I also have some hope for).

So you have 2 decent players that you drafted; 2 FA's that are good (Woodson and Pickett); and 2 street FA's that are good. That's 6 NFL calibur players out of a needed pool of what?? 17-18 players?? By that math, TT has a minimum of 11-12 roster positions to fill... he could just as easily cut all the riff-raff and start from scratch.

6 sacks in the last 7 games - that's an accurate measure of the Packers lack of front seven talent.

You guys may get out of bed wearing rose colored glasses - but there's no escaping the facts... the Packers front seven is a mess.

[wist43]

TT's highest pick for the Packers? #5 - a linebacker
His second highest pick? #9 - a D-lineman
His third highest pick? #16 - a D-lineman

Yup, it is pretty obvious that he puts no emphasis or importance on drafting defensive players generally and front seven in particular. All he does is stack up that offense, and when given an opportunity he passes on defensive players.

Had his planning worked and players remained healthy and law-abiding, the D-line should have included:

Pickett - Raji - Harrell (all first round picks, one brought in by FA)
Neal - (a second round pick)
Jolly - (a sixth round pick who had ability much higher than that)

Unfortunately, 60% of his plan did not materialize for whatever reasons.

Had those 5 played up to their capabilities, would we have cared if the sixth guy was Wynn, Wilson, Green or anyone else? Heck, maybe the sixth guy should have been Tollefson in 2011.

Failure of the D-line in 2011 had absolutely nothing to do with a lack of emphasis or commitment by TT. We can argue if it was poor evaluating and/or poor decision making versus bad luck, but an argument that TT ignores the position group is unsupportable.

So you're going with option #2 then?? The Packers absolutely suck at evaluating front seven players??

Damn that "bad luck"

[woodbuck27]

Woody, the front seven is composed of seven players. Both wist and Lurker make clear that with Thompson in charge, there are 4 former first round picks in those seven players. How many should there be? What pick distribution would cause you to conclude he had addressed the positions?

And the last time you predicted the Packers would never make the Super Bowl with Thompson in charge, that prediction ended up as someone's signature after the 2010 Super Bowl.

We've got four talented/quality starters 'circa 2011 Packers' in our front seven. News to me !

a) Enlighten me pbmax. Name them please. Thanks. (-:

Your 'point would be? ' RE: the Green Bay Packers becoming Super Bowl Champs in the 2010 season.

Why 'that fact' correlates with some clown carrying the fact I predicted that Ted Thompson wouldn't bring us a Super Bowl?

b) What's all that got to do with today? Does that change the water on the beans?

The Green Bay Packers have *'the worst ranked defense' in the NFL. What's the evidence of that fact...the TRUTH? That fact is published constantly. **Don't you believe it pbmax? **

The New York GIANTS certainly took advantage of *that fact* in a lopsided loss as we went one and out last season in the playoff's. The New York GIANTS IMO took advantage of certain Packer arrogance or over confidence in the face of having a defense that distinctly sucks.

** Here's the crux of my position, pbmax.

Going back to the Detroit Lions regular season game in the latter portion of the 2010 season. Do you recall how you felt after that game? Do you recall the condition of our team in regards to the condition of adversity it was in? We're you totally confident that we were then playoff bound? Moreso bound to do as well as we did in the playoffs?

After that Detroit lions game were you sure that theb Green Bay Packers were going to that Super Bowl and actually become Super bowl Champs?

If you were confident after that Detroit Lions game? Please publish something for all of us to learn from.

Maybe if that was the case or your certain confidence? You might consider opening an NFL Psychic Hotline. I would certainly recommend you.

I won't compare that Packer playoff run and eventual Super Bowl Victory to 'the Miracle On Ice'. In many ways it's just too bizarre how we were able to accomplish all we did in 2010, given the circumstances. It had alot to do with a solid offense coming to full maturity and a locker room full of Packers that somehow played out of their minds - over their heads.

There's an outstanding positive here for all of our futures.

We saw come to fruition what is possible given insurmountable odds against such a positive result. It should 'only' impress upon us 'one fact'. That all things are possible.

Even 'the unlikely' to 'the perceived' impossible.

GO TED THOMPSON ! GO PACKERS !!

[Patler]

Sure the front seven was a mess in 2011. Who has argued that it wasn't? I have raised the question for several years, and have specifically asked, are the Packers extremely poor at evaluating DL talent, ot just unlucky?

Front seven guys TT's "plan" would have had in 2011 - Harrell, Jolly, a healthy Neal, Thompson, a healthy Zombo.
Instead, he had Greene. Wynn, a useless Neal, Walden and a part-time Zombo.

Personally, I think if just one of Harrell, Jolly and a healthy Neal would have been playing as expected in 2011, the overall performance of the defense would have been much different, and if two had.......

[woodbuck27]

Sure the front seven was a mess in 2011. Who has argued that it wasn't? I have raised the question for several years, and have specifically asked, are the Packers extremely poor at evaluating DL talent, ot just unlucky?

Front seven guys TT's "plan" would have had in 2011 - Harrell, Jolly, a healthy Neal, Thompson, a healthy Zombo.
Instead, he had Greene. Wynn, a useless Neal, Walden and a part-time Zombo.

Personally, I think if just one of Harrell, Jolly and a healthy Neal would have been playing as expected in 2011, the overall performance of the defense would have been much different, and if two had.......

Yes! Why are so many here blind to this obvious fact? That amazes me.

That aside I just want TT to starat to 'really' fix it. To add some nicer cookies to our box.

[ND72]

Sure the front seven was a mess in 2011. Who has argued that it wasn't? I have raised the question for several years, and have specifically asked, are the Packers extremely poor at evaluating DL talent, ot just unlucky?

Front seven guys TT's "plan" would have had in 2011 - Harrell, Jolly, a healthy Neal, Thompson, a healthy Zombo.
Instead, he had Greene. Wynn, a useless Neal, Walden and a part-time Zombo.

Personally, I think if just one of Harrell, Jolly and a healthy Neal would have been playing as expected in 2011, the overall performance of the defense would have been much different, and if two had.......

Can I say both? Harrell was just a foolish pick. Neal showed a ton of potential...but then couldn't get off the IR list. If Jolly wasn't an idiot, we wouldn't likely be having this convernsation.

[Patler]

So you're going with option #2 then?? The Packers absolutely suck at evaluating front seven players??

Damn that "bad luck"

I don't think it is cut and dried either way, but I tend to think they are not as good at evaluating in that area as they are in others. Not only have many players they kept not worked out as hoped, but some that they released look like they might have been better than players they kept.

Bad luck had nothing to do with Jolly, nor was it poor evaluation. They knew the risks with him. I still think he was worth the risk in the sixth round. Not many sixth rounders give you as much solid play as Jolly did in the short time he was there, and if he had toed the line, he might have been a real steal.

Harrell and Neal? - Injuries always have an element of bad luck to them, but as high as each was taken there may have been a stronger element of poor evaluation/decision-making. Of course, Neal is not yet a lost cause, but getting close.

The one that hurts the most, I think, is Hawk. Why wasn't there an obvious defensive stud available that year? Maybe it was a year TT should have broken pattern and gone with an offensive guy as a high first round pick, instead of following his tendency to go defensive in the top of the 1st round.

Jeremy Thompson's career may have ended due to the injury, but he sure had not shown much to justify TT having traded up to get him. TT has brought in a slew of low round, URFA and street FA linemen and LBs, but no one who shows the potential of a Flynn, Starks, Newhouse, Shields or Williams. So far, not a rough cut gem in the bunch, although there is still hope for a couple of them.

[woodbuck27]

I wouldn't expect you to understand since you might be the most clueless poster on this board. Your a nice guy and all but I'm pretty sure when it comes to the NFL and the Packers I know what I'm talking about.

"you might be the most clueless poster on this board" Brandon494

OK sonny back yourself up. You and I. One on One...

I'm calling you out here. You prove that I'm clueless and good luck with that BS.

Feelin' a need to be macho today? Your Packer and football knowledge Vs mine.

Bring it on sonny 'in the Meadow'.

I'm NOT going to allow someone like you derail this thread to suit your position based 'in inaginative' thinking.
now in 'the Meadow'. i won't be 'the moose'.

I'll be 'the tiger'. When you enter my cage. You'll look like lunch.

You bring the salt and pepper please.

That will be a revealing exchange. You'll soon relaize how clueless I am.

Your like alot of posters here. You resort to baseless insulting and arrogant CRAP just as soon as your ego driven needs are in the least .....challenged. you need to resort to baseless and pointless insults that 'only' get your ass kicked when you run into a better man. I'm a better man then you sonny.

Bring it on when 'the Meadow' is created Genious. I welcome demonstrating to you just how clueles I am.

[Scott Campbell]

"you might be the most clueless poster on this board" Brandon494

OK sonny back yourself up. You and I. One on One...

I'm calling you out here. You prove that I'm clueless and good luck with that BS.

Feelin' a need to be macho today? Your Packer and football knowledge Vs mine.

Bring it on sonny.

That will be a revealing exchange. You'll soon relaize how clueless I am.

Your like alot of posters here. You resort to baseless insulting and arrogant CRAP just as soon as your ego driven needs are in the least .....challenged. you need to resort to baseless and pointless insults that 'only' get your ass kicked when you run into a better man. I'm a better man then you sonny.

Bring it on when 'the Meadow' is created Genious. I welcome demonstrating to you just how clueles I am.

[Brandon494]

^ HAHAHA I was thinking the samething.

[mraynrand]

I welcome demonstrating to you just how clueles I am.

I think we've had enough demonstrations already

[woodbuck27]

^ HAHAHA I was thinking the samething.

I have the middle fingers in the air and pointed south Brandon494 'just slightly short of 5'. I look forward to screwing one of them up your nose and waving the other one in your face.

The Meadow...lobby for it sonny. We'll have a little TANGO.

Till then PEACE be with you as you ponder reality.

[woodbuck27]

I think we've had enough demonstrations already

The MEADOW. Where all men prove that's a fact. Virtual reality meets Cinemascope. Where insults are held 'to task'.

[Scott Campbell]

At least he proved he's not a crazy old man.

[wist43]

As for the front seven, which is my bone of contention - here is where we stand, and how we got there:

Defensive Line
BJ Raji (1st round)
Ryan Pickett (1st round/FA)
Jarius Wynn (6th round)
CJ Wilson (7th round)
Lawrence Guy (7th round)
Daniel Muir (Street FA)
Anthony Hargrove (orig. 3rd round, street FA)
Mike Neal (2nd round - probable bust)

Linebackers
Clay Matthews (1st round)
A.J. Hawk (1st round)
Desmond Bishop (6th round)
Brad Jones (7th round)
D.J. Smith (6th round)
Erik Walden (6th round – is a free agent)
Robert Francois (undrafted)
Frank Zombo (undrafted)
Vic So ‘oto (undrafted)
Jamari Lattimore (undrafted)

That's a pile of 6th/7th rounders and street FA's. That's putting a lot of faith your coaching staff's ability to "coach 'em up"... at some point, talent matters; and talent tends to get snapped up at the top of the draft.

I don't think it is cut and dried either way, but I tend to think they are not as good at evaluating in that area as they are in others. Not only have many players they kept not worked out as hoped, but some that they released look like they might have been better than players they kept.

Bad luck had nothing to do with Jolly, nor was it poor evaluation. They knew the risks with him. I still think he was worth the risk in the sixth round. Not many sixth rounders give you as much solid play as Jolly did in the short time he was there, and if he had toed the line, he might have been a real steal.

Harrell and Neal? - Injuries always have an element of bad luck to them, but as high as each was taken there may have been a stronger element of poor evaluation/decision-making. Of course, Neal is not yet a lost cause, but getting close.

The one that hurts the most, I think, is Hawk. Why wasn't there an obvious defensive stud available that year? Maybe it was a year TT should have broken pattern and gone with an offensive guy as a high first round pick, instead of following his tendency to go defensive in the top of the 1st round.

Jeremy Thompson's career may have ended due to the injury, but he sure had not shown much to justify TT having traded up to get him. TT has brought in a slew of low round, URFA and street FA linemen and LBs, but no one who shows the potential of a Flynn, Starks, Newhouse, Shields or Williams. So far, not a rough cut gem in the bunch, although there is still hope for a couple of them.

Everyone on here wants to "accentuate the positive", and cite Raji and Matthews, but I recall my earlier post here and point to the makeup of the front seven as it is. That's 18 players of which only 5 belong on an NFL roster.

Yes, TT invested 1st round picks in the front seven (2 worked out, 2 were busts) - then nothing until the 6th/7th round.

Some of us saw all of this last year, but were of course shouted down... afterall, we had just won the SB, how could we possibly have any deficiencies?? What did TT do to address the glaring needs, at positions absolutely ciritical to playing good defensive football?? He drafted 3 offensive players in the 1st 3 rounds, and only with his last pick in the 7th round did he throw in Lawrence Guy.

WTF??

TT obviously overvalued the players he had... I assume he will do the same thing this year with those same players. TT doesn't see 6 sacks in 7 games and a blowout loss in the playoffs; he sees development program, and players that need nothing more than offseason development and to be coached up.

We're goiing to have to average 45 pts a game to get to 10 wins... which given our high flying offense, is doable; but giving up 40 pts/game on defense is not fun to watch.