One Exec "Packers Have Much Work To Do"

[Brandon494]

The Saints are facing this problem right now. They've had to let some pretty good players go -- Carl Nicks, Robert Meachem, Tracy Porter (Nicks, an All-Pro) because they, like every other team, can't keep everyone.

Saints also sign big time FAs like MLB Lofton this year that we don't do. I have more faith in TT then I do the Saints GM who is on his way out of the NFL soon for the Saints latest incident.

[Upnorth]

So regarding Jennings, my question is how much better does his QB and other receivers make him? He has had two great qb's throwing to him and always had Driver opposite him. That helps him out a lot. Some are clearly the best at their position, such as Fitz Johnson and Welker. Then their are a lot of great players lumped toghether. Making a clear cut statement that Jennings is top five is hard, I would say top 15 for sure.
Players at that level in my opinion are White, Cruz, Colston, Harvin, Marshall, Smith (carolina), HOU Johnson (I think that is his name I can't remember) and that is of the top of my head. Add in some of the emerging new guys like Nelson, Wallace and others and their is an arguement that Jennings is not even top 10. I think he is top 10, but his talent level is not head and shoulders above say the 12th best player.

[Brandon494]

Exactly.

On our roster it potentially becomes a legit question. Which will you miss more - Jennings, or ~$10M of cap space?

Where are you getting these numbers from? Jenning right now is making around 4-5M I believe. If we resign him that number will most likely go up to around 8M a season. 3M raise is hardly 10M in cap space.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think they need to keep Jennings. Of all of the guys on the roster, I think the most important ones for long-term success are Rodgers, Matthews, Jennings, and Raji.

[Brandon494]

So regarding Jennings, my question is how much better does his QB and other receivers make him? He has had two great qb's throwing to him and always had Driver opposite him. That helps him out a lot. Some are clearly the best at their position, such as Fitz Johnson and Welker. Then their are a lot of great players lumped toghether. Making a clear cut statement that Jennings is top five is hard, I would say top 15 for sure.
Players at that level in my opinion are White, Cruz, Colston, Harvin, Marshall, Smith (carolina), HOU Johnson (I think that is his name I can't remember) and that is of the top of my head. Add in some of the emerging new guys like Nelson, Wallace and others and their is an arguement that Jennings is not even top 10. I think he is top 10, but his talent level is not head and shoulders above say the 12th best player.

He's no doubt a top ten reciever and there is the argument about that. Also you really going to bring Nelson into this conversation?

In no order these are the top WRs in the league...

CJ
Andre Johnson
Roddy White
Brandon Marshall
Steve Smith
Greg Jennings
Fitzgerald

After this you have guys like

Britt
Bowe
Colston
Vicent Jackson
Nicks
Wayne

[Brandon494]

I think they need to keep Jennings. Of all of the guys on the roster, I think the most important ones for long-term success are Rodgers, Matthews, Jennings, and Raji.

Yup

[Scott Campbell]

If we resign him that number will most likely go up to around 8M a season.

$8M falls below the current top 10 average salary per year. Santonio Holmes got $9M. Pierre Garcon got $8.5M. Sidney Rice got $8.2M. Devin Hester got $10M. Vincent Jackson got $11M. Even Wes Welker got over $9M, and you scoffed at him being better than Jennings. And the averages are expected to creep up every year. And you think Jennings is a top 5 talent, but will sign for less than all these guys?

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/wide-receiver/

Jenning right now is making around 4-5M I believe..................3 M raise is hardly 10M in cap space.

Except Ted won't be choosing between Jennings with his new salary, vs Jennings with his old salary. Jenning's old salary will not be valid choice.

The choice will be between keeping him, and letting him go. And $10M is not out of line given the current salary structure of NFL WR's.

[Cleft Crusty]

I don't know if I could call Jennings a top 5 wide receiver, but I have a hard time arguing that he isn't.

Yeah, your inclination based on measurables would be to rank him lower than the bigger and faster 'elite' guys. But he's top 5 because of the chemistry between he and Rodgers. That's why it would be a disaster to let him walk unless you guaranteed, no-question had another like him on the roster. And that's very hard to guarantee. Clefty will say it again - the precision between Rodgers and Jennings was a critical factor in winning the Superbowl in 2010, and just that little fraction off lost them the Giants game. Who knows - but I suspect had that same precision been there in the 2011 playoffs, they very likely would have repeated. You are taking a huge chance letting Jennings walk. And, to be honest, he assuredly wouldn't have the same success apart from Rodgers either. But he might make more coin.

[Scott Campbell]

Clefty will say it again - the precision between Rodgers and Jennings was a critical factor in winning the Superbowl in 2010, and just that little fraction off lost them the Giants game.

I disagree completely. There was a far greater gap between Jordy's drop off from the Superbowl win to the Giants loss than in the case of Jennings drop off. From a chemistry standpoint, Jennings had the same number of targets and receptions in both games.

[Fritz]

I'm not really an I told you so kind of guy. I'd rather you be right in this case.

Or I'd rather this draft yield 5 starters who are equal to or better than the vets coming up for renewal.

This is why the NFL is so tough on GM's. Thompson has done a helluva job drafting - I disagree that he picks offensive talent better than defensive talent. Had Harrell not hurt his back, had Neal not gotten hurt, had Jolly not gone purple, the defensive line would be stocked. Conversely, had Bulaga gotten hurt, and had Josh Sitton gotten busted for something, someone might be arguing that Thompson doesn't know how to draft offensive linemen. Hell, we're already getting that with Sherrod - and I think it's often based on the fact he got hurt, not on his play prior to that. I thought he was progressing at tackle after being shuffled every which way - and after coming out of college with the proviso that he needed work to be developed.

Back to the original point - no matter how good a GM does, with the salary cap he's always, always got to come up with more and more superior drafts in order to keep up with his own success. Thompson -- no GM -- can rest. It's a tough gig. There's a lot riding on getting the evaluations right.

[Lurker64]

I honestly think that Jennings won't be as tough to resign as people are thinking. The reason? Jennings already makes a lot of money. It's not like we'd be moving his cap number from $1m to $11m, we'd be moving his cap from $8m to $11m, and those sorts of deals are a lot easier to make.

The tough one for TT will be Lang, but with any luck he can get the Jordy discount.

[Scott Campbell]

Where are you getting these numbers from? Jenning right now is making around 4-5M I believe. If we resign him that number will most likely go up to around 8M a season.

"The Packers handed over $26.35 million in new money to the fourth-year receiver, an average of almost $9 million per year, according to an NFL source with knowledge of the contract numbers. The deal makes Jennings one of the highest-paid receivers in the league."

Though SportTrac shows it at $6.7M. I don't know what accounts for the discrepancy.

[Smidgeon]

I think they need to keep Jennings. Of all of the guys on the roster, I think the most important ones for long-term success are Rodgers, Matthews, Jennings, and Raji.

I would have added Collins to that list before his injury. :\

P.S. Repped!

[3irty1]

I honestly think that Jennings won't be as tough to resign as people are thinking. The reason? Jennings already makes a lot of money. It's not like we'd be moving his cap number from $1m to $11m, we'd be moving his cap from $8m to $11m, and those sorts of deals are a lot easier to make.

The tough one for TT will be Lang, but with any luck he can get the Jordy discount.

Ding, Ding, Ding!

[woodbuck27]

Good luck wist on the surgery. Make sure you read this link before any anesthetic. Because it will make you nauseous, esp. the last paragraph.

http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/corp/pa...dle/601?feed=2

OK pbmax I'm back. We suffered some on and off power failures where I'm at and those lasted up to 5-6 hours. I have other things to do in terms of analysis and matters here but I'll re-enter the discussion.

Have I entered the Packerrats 'twilight zone'?

I read the **last two parts of Jason Wilde's article and it does little NOT to support wist43.

** PACKERS PERSPECTIVE... Position analysis and Draft strategy:

Are there actually any Packerrats that don't agree with wist43? I mean get REAL please. wist43's position has been over the top substantiated...proven valid. Anybody here that has taken a stance Vs his is frankly deluded and that cannot be the case. Last or worst in the NFL is clearly not good.

Our defense certainly is coyote UGLY. Really really bad ! wist43 certainly informs us why that is 'a fact'.

wist43 doesn't attack the distinguished Ted Thompson in his analysis. So y'all can relax on that front. Maybe realize that Ted Thompson is like us all. He sinks when trying to walk on water.

Any analysis of TT's performance RE: drafting on 'D' has to unfortunately give TT a failing grade as an evaluator and selector of defensive prospects in the draft. Can anyone not see that's the case? If you don't just a suggestion.

Take a deep breath and with an open mind take the time necessary to get there. It's painless.

IMO TT has drafted two soild defensive players in safety Nick Collins who took time to develop and for all intents and purposes he's not going to be a Packer we can count on. Ted Thompson must replace Nick Collins ...now. TT will be drafting a Safety. He will draft a pass rushing DE/OLB.He will draft a DT and two of three of these picks need to be in the creme category.

Ted knows that talent is like cream it rises to the top. In this case we're simply referring to the top of the draft class and that talent will be located in rounds one and two in terms of our defensive needs. He might get lucky with a round three pick. We need DE/ROLB 'pass rush' as our TOP priority and TT cannot get that if he ignores what every Packer fan see's as that need.

TT has to secure talent at DT to take the heat off DT BJ Raji and be prepared to replace DT Ryan Pickett.

Shouldn't Justin Harrell have been spotted as an injury risk? Is that unfair? He suffered a torn biceps tendon while playing college ball for Tennessee. NO! He certainly needed to be checked out for his attitude as he drew criticism for showing up to OTA and Training Camp his rookie season out of shape and slightly overweight.

That's moot as again no one is attacking Ted Thompson in any posts I see on this thread. Those that sit on the thread imagining such are better challenged elsewhere.

What sense is that anyway given we need so much from Ted Thompson. He'll sometimes fail or let some of us down. He does the best with what he has. He's had poor luck drafting for our 'D'. We must hope that luck changes.

TT got an instant impact for our 3-4 defensive scheme when he moved up in round one to secure LB Clay Matthews.

DT BJ Raji? The jury has to be out on this draft pick as he wasn't spectacilar in his rookie DT campaign,2009. He played as TT expected in 2010. Last year BJ Raji was at best inconsistent and more accurately run over...worn out. BJ Raji need to be rested.

Guys named DE Anthony Hargrove and DT Daniel Muir cannot be expected to make a huge impact except to be included as situational / rotational players. They afterall carry the dreaded FA tag. They are in Green Bay for a short time.

DE Mike Neal has got himself against the wall. He has to deliver at least some promise this season and that gets off to an unfortunate 'no start'.

What's left on the Roster:

DL Johnny Jones; DE's X 3 Guy Lawrence; C J Wilson and Jarius Wynn. Excited !?

Sorry all AJ Hawk fans.

AJ Hawk is a one dimensional 'stop the run' LBer and is there any doubt of his pass defense instincts? He fails in that regard. IMO he's made loads of tackles but is he what we hoped he's be as a College player?Wasn't it last year that we went through all that AJ Hawk to Buffalo Bills talk and the Bills didn't beat down TT's door to grab Hawk. Arn't we simply stuck with Hawk and his CAP space?

What do we have to support Clay Matthews on the right side at LB?

Choose one: Desmond Bishop: Robert Francois; Brad Jones; Jamari Lattimore; DJ Smith or Erik Walden.

Did I miss anyone?

Is anyone there getting it done? Will anyone there get it done? It seems to me the correct response is : NO.


What's Eric Walden doing back on that list? I'm guessing he didn't have alot of offers as a FA. TT brings him back and lets a Pro Bowler go? That's some strange behaviour but I mustn't question TT as he knows.

"outside linebackers coach Kevin Greene made it clear that he was disappointed that none of those players seized the opportunity to be the unquestioned starter at the position. He also suggested that the team will have to find its starter at right outside linebacker somewhere other than the current roster. “We gave a number of guys the opportunities to step up and show that he was going to be that guy, and they came up short. It didn’t happen." Jason Wilde

We need to hope for Ted Thompson to draft right and have some LUCK as alot of it lies right there.

Now please.... don't respond to this post without reading Jason Wilde's article see pbmax's LINK above.

By the way all you who took on wist43...you lost. All the same nice try. ** Healthy debate without attacks is what we need here at Packerrats.

** That FREE of 'name calling' and 'flaming disrespect'. That FREE of ridiculous character assasinations.

You may have almost worn him out but he knows.