The Average Elite Pass Rusher

[Smidgeon]

Yeah, Impact players. Lets take a look at the top 10.

Mario Williams†- Great
Reggie Bush - Severely underperformed
Vince Young† - Sucks
D'Brickashaw - Solid
A. J. Hawk† - Solid
Vernon Davis† - Solid
Michael Huff - Underperformed
Donte Whitner - Sucks
Ernie Sims - sucks
Matt Leinart - Out of football? I don't know what even happened to this guy.

You could do this every year. TT didn't hit a home run, but that year the only one who did was Houston and they had the first pick.

AJ Hawk was actually one of the better picks from the 2006 draft. Yes, there were better players taken later on, but I find it hard to believe anyone would have said Ngata or Mangold were top 10 players when they were being drafted. There is one guy you could argue about and that's Vernon Davis (and he specifically stated he wouldn't play for Green Bay) and he's had a less than steller career. AJ Hawk has lead the packers in tackling 4 of his 6 years here. He was #2 his second year. Last year was really his only poor year and he still had 84 tackles.

† = Pro Bowl

I was talking about expectations instead of results. The expectation was that Hawk was going to be an impact player. Yes he was "safe" in that he was tagged as the most NFL-ready, but he was still expected to be Impact-ful.

[ND72]

Yeah, Impact players. Lets take a look at the top 10.

Mario Williams†- Great
Reggie Bush - Severely underperformed
Vince Young† - Sucks
D'Brickashaw - Solid
A. J. Hawk† - Solid
Vernon Davis† - Solid
Michael Huff - Underperformed
Donte Whitner - Sucks
Ernie Sims - sucks
Matt Leinart - Out of football? I don't know what even happened to this guy.

You could do this every year. TT didn't hit a home run, but that year the only one who did was Houston and they had the first pick.

AJ Hawk was actually one of the better picks from the 2006 draft. Yes, there were better players taken later on, but I find it hard to believe anyone would have said Ngata or Mangold were top 10 players when they were being drafted. There is one guy you could argue about and that's Vernon Davis (and he specifically stated he wouldn't play for Green Bay) and he's had a less than steller career. AJ Hawk has lead the packers in tackling 4 of his 6 years here. He was #2 his second year. Last year was really his only poor year and he still had 84 tackles.

† = Pro Bowl

Lets also remember that Ngata was considered a 3-4 guy, and we were 4-3 at that time. (I know he would have been fine, but still).
Also, Vernon Davis has had an up and down career. This year he finally came out and did what was expected. Until this year, he was shaky and considered unreliable.

[Pugger]

I think this McClellin kid looks pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBo1St4vArc

He showed me some plays where he took on blockers but was still able to make tackles. I liked the play where he jumped over the blocker and still made the tackle. He looks like he has strong hands. It shows him getting around the edge quickly on some plays. I liked how he defended that option play. He basically took away the option run and the pitch on the play and caused a fumble. Good instincts.

I realize he won't be Clay Matthews, but there were some plays that reminded me of Clay. Strong hands to strip the ball. A pursuit sack that reminded me of Clay's concussion hit on Kolb in 2010. Getting around the edge. There was a play where he ran an inside stunt and knifed through in a way that reminded me of Clay.

They didn't show him in coverage, and he doesn't quite have the quickness and knee bend that Clay has getting around the corner, but I'm now on board with this guy. In fact, I was impressed enough to think this guy won't be there when we pick.

I think it is grossly unfair to expect to find another Clay in this draft, especially from where we are sitting - unless we move up a few slots in a trade.

[Smeefers]

Lets also remember that Ngata was considered a 3-4 guy, and we were 4-3 at that time. (I know he would have been fine, but still).
Also, Vernon Davis has had an up and down career. This year he finally came out and did what was expected. Until this year, he was shaky and considered unreliable.

That's what I always though about Davis too, but it turns out 2009 & 2010 were his good years where he had close to 1000 yard seasons. Last year he was at 600 something.

As for those who disagree, there's no arguing if you straight up think T Davis is a great NFL player and Hawk isn't one. I will stand and say Hawk did make an impact. He's lead the team in tackles a majority of his career. If you think every top 10 player should be a superstar, then I think that is a very unrealistic view of how the NFL works. You get a better chance to get a superstar, but getting a solid pick is by no means a loss. There were maybe what, 10 good picks in the first round? We got one of them.


Here's a little something to start a convo:
If we had 4 linebackers who, at their position, were as good as AJ was at his, we'd have the best LB crew in the league.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think it is grossly unfair to expect to find another Clay in this draft, especially from where we are sitting - unless we move up a few slots in a trade.

Thus, "I realize he won't be Clay Matthews".

[Fritz]

I love the conversation here about who's the best fit and all, but are we gonna do if Ted drafts a wide receiver or a running back or something?

[Smeefers]

I love the conversation here about who's the best fit and all, but are we gonna do when Ted drafts a wide receiver or a running back or something?

Fixed.

[denverYooper]

I think people are missing the boat if they think this McClellin kid is an average talent, hard working type. The athleticism he shows on his highlights is every bit as impressive as most of these other guys. And he also looks to be more versatile. Upshaw to me seems more like a guy that is limited athletically, but will probably be a decent player. I guess he could be a Ray Lewis type. A guy that didn't wow you with his measurables, but whose passion, intelligence, and physicality allowed him to make up for whatever athletic limitations he might have had.

You mean he's just not a high-motor, lunchpail-type guy? One who brings a strong blue-collar work ethic to the sport?

[denverYooper]

Upshaw looks slow and lumbering compared to McClellin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqPR3A415pY&feature=relmfu

I think they may want more of a bull than a tiger opposite Clay, though, and Upshaw would certainly better fit that bill.

[pbmax]

I think they may want more of a bull than a tiger opposite Clay, though, and Upshaw would certainly better fit that bill.

That's actually a good question, though I am not sure T2 will be asking that during the pick. Does Capers need a want a specialty guy or are the two OLBS interchangeable? Matthews moved to the left side after his rookie year (he does move around a lot play to play) where tradition indicates he would see more runs and face the TE more often. The left side lends itself to one on one pass rush versus the LT.

In Pittsburgh, Harrison is on the right and the larger Woodley is on the left more often than not.

[3irty1]

McClellin is a good player no doubt, he doesn't ever seem to leave plays on the field. Thing is we need a pass rusher and he's just so-so but more importantly doesn't have the raw tools to become what we need. I'd rather have Perry. Perry is a worse overall player and probably always will be but he can threaten that edge from the day he is drafted which fills our actual need. Even if McClellin can become a pass rusher who can win one-on-one's with NFL left tackles he is in the mold that will take a while to develop, like Aaron Kampman. Our window is now, I want pressure on the QB.

Might sound stupid but I'd rather draft a KGB than an Aaron Kampman right now. I'll take the one-trick-pony as long as that trick is getting to the QB.

[Fritz]

But if you draft the one-trick pony, don't you then find yourself in a position to become too predictable? Maybe you can't rush Matthews as much now because you've got to use Perry to rush,not to cover - so you have to use Matthews in coverage more?

[3irty1]

That's actually a good question, though I am not sure T2 will be asking that during the pick. Does Capers need a want a specialty guy or are the two OLBS interchangeable? Matthews moved to the left side after his rookie year (he does move around a lot play to play) where tradition indicates he would see more runs and face the TE more often. The left side lends itself to one on one pass rush versus the LT.

In Pittsburgh, Harrison is on the right and the larger Woodley is on the left more often than not.

The Packers do it the way they do it for the benefit of the scheme because we have only one pass-rushing threat at OLB. Clay is a nice pass rusher but he isn't so good that you don't leave your LT on an island to handle him. Put Clay at LOLB though and they have to roll more protection that way. Basically we've accepted we're not getting to the QB but at least we can keep one less guy from running a route. If this team added McClellin or Upshaw it wouldn't surprise me to see Clay back on the right side. He can beat an NFL left tackle around the corner once in a while. Those guys can at least contain and chase down boot-legging QB's and keep RT's honest.

[3irty1]

But if you draft the one-trick pony, don't you then find yourself in a position to become too predictable? Maybe you can't rush Matthews as much now because you've got to use Perry to rush,not to cover - so you have to use Matthews in coverage more?

In our 2-4 (what we play lik 75% of the time) you'd have Clay, Raji, Wynn/Hargrove, and Perry as your 4 pass rushers more often than not. This is the package we need help with. Our 3-4 is mostly for defending the run and Running backs aren't the people that are beating us in shoot-outs. But in the cases where we do rush the passer out of the 3-4, I'm happy with dropping Clay into coverage. He's good at it. Pittsburgh does it with Harrison all the time and he's still competing for defensive player of the year every season.

[HarveyWallbangers]

There are some guys (like Ingram) that will be long gone when we pick, but of the rest I like McClellin the best.

I am an elite OLB mind. The Bears agreed with me.


I'm kind of pissed. You suckers roped me into caring and researching some of these guys, and the guy I liked went to the Bears. Argh!