TT acknowledges dysfunction of front seven

[pbmax]

Am I imagining this or has the coaching staff made metion of House needing to mature....or hinted at it ?

I thought part of the reason he fell last year is he has some screws loose

House is the only one on the roster who would seem to be able to play outside CB on a regular basis beside Williams and Shields. And Shields is on notice as well.

[pbmax]

Sure, I know good defense when I see it... I love watching good defense - which is why I make an effort to watch the dominant 3-4 teams when they're on prime time, i.e. Pitt, Balt, etc. Being a Packer fan, and living in WI, good defense simply isn't much of a priority. It's all about offense here, and try to plug the holes on defense as you go.

12 years ago or so I watched an interview with Brian Billick and he talked about how in Balt they arrived at the decisions, structured the defense, selected the players, and tweaked their scheme to play to the strengths of their players. Hearing their strategy and logic behind it, certainly broadened my understanding of how to build a defense.

Baltimore has been a great defensive team for many years... they're fun to watch. Yes, 13-10 football is fun to watch

My only nit to pick here is that Billick did not draft, construct or run the defense. So he may have witnessed how to construct one, but he didn't do any of it. He may have had a hand in selecting the coordinators though.

[Patler]

Patler, the Packers 2012 draft feels more like Wolfe's 1999 draft when he realized he some serious holes to fill at DB and he went DB, DB, DB right out the gate. 2 of the guys couldn't play (Edwards and Vinson), but it all worked out in the end, and the problem was, for the most part, fixed.

This feels nothing at all like that draft. Wolf used three top picks for one (maybe two) positions. That was desperation.
TT instead covered the entire defense; DE, inside rush specialist, OLB, ILB, CB and a safety. It is not desperation so much as recognition that the overall package on defense needs improvement. To repeat 1999, TT would have gone OLB, OLB, OLB, or DE, DE, DE. All in to improve one spot.

As for whether or not Vinson or Edwards could play, Vinson never had a chance to show if he could or not. Injuries (feet?) ended his career.
Antuan Edwards had actually worked himself into a somewhat decent player (not great), but was never the same after his knee injury. Even at that, when he was switched to safety he wasn't their worst d-back, but more injuries came in. Certainly not a memorable player, but not as bad as some others they have picked.

[pbmax]

The other problem with that 99 draft was that unless you count turning Vinson into Ahman Green as a 3 draft pick victory, it didn't work. As good as McKenzie was, he couldn't stop Moss. And Sherman still had to get Harris to man the other position.

[Guiness]

*Raji
*Pickett
*Neal
*Wilson
*Green
*Wynn
Guy
Worthy
Daniels
Hargrove
Muir
Jonny Jones?

Worthy could easily take Wilson's spot and only gives up an inch, plus he is heavier and better. But Daniels gives up three inches to Wynn. Wynn struggled to hold up at DE as it was in base, Daniels will be hard pressed to do it. NT will be interesting. Pickett can backup Raji, obviously, but Raji rarely comes off the field since he can pressure. If Raji does not have to take every snap in nickel, he will be better rested than previous years and Pickett as backup could work. But if one of them is unavailable, this new line gets very very small. There would be a temptation to keep Green. But then to keep Hargrove, you would have to carry seven.

Green is the really interesting one here, IMO. None of us seem to know what to make of his chances of making the team.

I think he's been put on notice, and needs to come to camp fighting for his job. If he looks great, he makes the team as the backup NT. If Green doesn't impress, we certainly have enough bodies to play DE, Pickett and Raji rotate at NT, with Pickett playing more limited snaps at DE.

[Patler]

Green is the really interesting one here, IMO. None of us seem to know what to make of his chances of making the team.

I think he's been put on notice, and needs to come to camp fighting for his job. If he looks great, he makes the team as the backup NT. If Green doesn't impress, we certainly have enough bodies to play DE, Pickett and Raji rotate at NT, with Pickett playing more limited snaps at DE.

Green isn't even signed, is he? I doubt they will even bring him into camp.

[pbmax]

He isn't on the Packer website. If Pickett starts at DE, that leaves a hole at NT I think. Muir perhaps? He is listed as 320, but I don't know if he has ever played NT before.

[Smeefers]

There was not a "stong promise" from Walden, Zombo, and Jones. I still had a smidgeon of hope for Walden, but I could tell even during our SB run that it was a mirage. All of those guys are short-term plugs that TT tried to convince himself were legit NFL starters. Way, way off base... not even close. TT majorly fucked up, realized it, and set about fixing it in this draft.

My skepticism toward TT before this draft was due entirely to his track record in drafting, and the fact that the Packers really don't value defense or pass rush very much. TT definitely put that criticism to bed, and I'm glad he did.

10 out of 12 picks to defense... just a regular draft for TT?? Trading up and down all over the place to get guys that fill specific package rolls - that's all I was asking... was that so hard??

If I'm "exaggerating"; then TT is too... b/c he did everything I thought he needed to do. It remains to be seen if TT actually fixed a lot of defensive shortcomings, but at least he addressed the issues - seems I'm the only PR happy about that, lol...

This was a statement draft by TT, and the statement was, "our defense sucks"........ Maybe if we had His Lordness deliver the draft pick announcements, then all you guys would feel warmier, fuzzier, hopier, changier??

Wist, you are such a visionary. You saw a road the packers needed to take and by God they took it. I am simply amazed. No one should ever consider contradicting what you say ever again. I don't even think they should allow anyone to post here but you, execpt of course if it's to agree with you. Ted Thompson knew our front 7 was the worst since the creation of the 3-4 defense. There was perhaps 1 or 2 guys who could play on that D though pretty much everyone sucked. Thankfully, TT finally realised this and decided that he would rather field a bunch of rookies out there (Which I too think is a great, great idea). I think your right.

Perry is definately starting at OLB. He'll play most of the time and our defense will improve because of it. He is at least going to be a NFL calibur player, unlike the schmucks we got in there now. We'll probably let all those other hose bags go (except for walden, he might have a little bit of potential).

At RE, it's going to be Worthy all day long. They don't even need to keep those other D-Bags that played that position last year. Not with worthy there. Who cares what kind of experience those 7th round guys got, screw them, toss em. We might want to keep Mike Neal, but with that 4 game suspension, he's going to have to be at least a pro bowl calibur player to take over for this NFL calibur player that we drafted. Those other guys don't deserve to wash gilbert brown's jock strap.

Now we all know what a shitty year Trammon Williams had last year. 4 INT's, 19 PD's and 58 Tackles? Jesus, he might as well be asking TT for his gold watch. He's lucky though, because Sam Shields played way... way, way way worse. He only had 4 INT's, 13 PD's and 38 tackles. Looks like he's back to special teams because we got ourselves a bonifide NFL calibur CB in Casey Hayword. I sure am glad TT decided to address how shitty our cornerbacks played by picking this guy up. He moved up to get him, you know that means TT thought that our DB's sucked monkey balls.

BJ Raji, Ryan Pickett, your asses are currently on notice you fat tubs of shit. We got Mike Daniels and you guys are fucked. One of you is going to be riding the pine next year and I don't know why you didn't expect it. Did you see how shitty you played last year? You were part of a front 7 that was worse that a bunch of arthritic dress wearing shit eating cry babies Wist and I have ever seen. You were part of a D that sucked so bad, that it's fucking amazing that they didn't single handidly just hand every game we played to the opposition. I mean, I know we went 15-2 and I know we lost to the Giants because of drops and turn overs, but fuck you guys for being on such a piece of shit defense. You know what we did? We picked up a REAL NFL calibur defensive tackle in Mike Daniels. You guys are fucked. No way you can compete with that guy.

We're also lucky as hell we got someone to finally replace that worthless piece of shit Charlie Peprah. That guy sucks. I mean mega sucks, everyone here even agrees with it. That dude is so bad, he may be one of the sole reasons the packers D gave up so many yards last year and we all know that yardage is the absolute best way to determine how good a defense is. I mean, last year? 5 INT's 10 PD's and 78 tackles? He should be dragged out into the parking lot and shot in the knee caps every day at dawn for a performance like that. That's nowhere near Nick Collins' Pro Bowl numbers from 2010 - 4 INT's, 13 PD's and 53 tackles. I mean, Nick Collins created 2 Forced fumbles that year, Peprah? Big goose egg. Fuck that guy. We got Jerron McMillion now. Peprah's taking a walk.

Terrell Manning is going to be a great sub package player for this team. He'll probably push Walden back even farther on the depth chart. This guy is a real NFL calibur player and man am I real happy about that. See, TT doesn't draft for the future, he drafts for next season. These guys absolutely need to contribute and Jerron's no different. He's going to provide the kind of pass rush that Walden and Zombo couldn't even dream of. This guy is lightyears ahead of those other ass holes, he's a real NFL calibur guy, not like Zombo and Walden. They're pieces of shit who should be washing the floor.

I am so happy, just like Wist, that TT decided to do what Wist thought he should do. I'm glad he decided not to get any good players on offense at all, I would rather him take some 4th rounder (who's totally going to play a lot) for defense than some D-bag who probably won't even see the field on offense, even if that guy is better - And we all know that's what TT did. Just admit it guys. Don't make Wist and me rub your nose in it like you're a dog who shit in the living room. It just sucks when we have to do that (although it is kind of fun to use random facts to PROVE that we were right and you were wrong you idiots). I mean, I'm extatic that we got all these awesome guys who are obviously better than the guys we got now. I mean, with all these playmakers that we added, it's impossible not to say that TT was addressing specific needs and these guys are here to fill them.

[pbmax]

One way the Steelers solve the sub package dilemma is to play less of it. The Steelers play far more base and tend to sub out LBs for DBs when they do sub.

Hampton does come out for pass rush, though not always on early downs. Many of the pass rush specialists the Steelers carry are LBs and safeties, not DL.

The Packers would seem to be sticking with the 2-4-5, 2-3-6 and 3-3-5.

[gbgary]

our db's will be 100% better this year. we'll be a top 8 or better defense.

[Joemailman]

He isn't on the Packer website. If Pickett starts at DE, that leaves a hole at NT I think. Muir perhaps? He is listed as 320, but I don't know if he has ever played NT before.

Why can't Pickett be the starting LDE and the backup NT? Worthy plays LDE when Pickett needs a rest or when Pickett needs to spell Raji at NT. When you're only keeping probably 6 DL, can you afford 3 NT's?

[hoosier]

Wist, you are such a visionary. You saw a road the packers needed to take and by God they took it. I am simply amazed. No one should ever consider contradicting what you say ever again. I don't even think they should allow anyone to post here but you, execpt of course if it's to agree with you. Ted Thompson knew our front 7 was the worst since the creation of the 3-4 defense. There was perhaps 1 or 2 guys who could play on that D though pretty much everyone sucked. Thankfully, TT finally realised this and decided that he would rather field a bunch of rookies out there (Which I too think is a great, great idea). I think your right.

Perry is definately starting at OLB. He'll play most of the time and our defense will improve because of it. He is at least going to be a NFL calibur player, unlike the schmucks we got in there now. We'll probably let all those other hose bags go (except for walden, he might have a little bit of potential).

At RE, it's going to be Worthy all day long. They don't even need to keep those other D-Bags that played that position last year. Not with worthy there. Who cares what kind of experience those 7th round guys got, screw them, toss em. We might want to keep Mike Neal, but with that 4 game suspension, he's going to have to be at least a pro bowl calibur player to take over for this NFL calibur player that we drafted. Those other guys don't deserve to wash gilbert brown's jock strap.

Now we all know what a shitty year Trammon Williams had last year. 4 INT's, 19 PD's and 58 Tackles? Jesus, he might as well be asking TT for his gold watch. He's lucky though, because Sam Shields played way... way, way way worse. He only had 4 INT's, 13 PD's and 38 tackles. Looks like he's back to special teams because we got ourselves a bonifide NFL calibur CB in Casey Hayword. I sure am glad TT decided to address how shitty our cornerbacks played by picking this guy up. He moved up to get him, you know that means TT thought that our DB's sucked monkey balls.

BJ Raji, Ryan Pickett, your asses are currently on notice you fat tubs of shit. We got Mike Daniels and you guys are fucked. One of you is going to be riding the pine next year and I don't know why you didn't expect it. Did you see how shitty you played last year? You were part of a front 7 that was worse that a bunch of arthritic dress wearing shit eating cry babies Wist and I have ever seen. You were part of a D that sucked so bad, that it's fucking amazing that they didn't single handidly just hand every game we played to the opposition. I mean, I know we went 15-2 and I know we lost to the Giants because of drops and turn overs, but fuck you guys for being on such a piece of shit defense. You know what we did? We picked up a REAL NFL calibur defensive tackle in Mike Daniels. You guys are fucked. No way you can compete with that guy.

We're also lucky as hell we got someone to finally replace that worthless piece of shit Charlie Peprah. That guy sucks. I mean mega sucks, everyone here even agrees with it. That dude is so bad, he may be one of the sole reasons the packers D gave up so many yards last year and we all know that yardage is the absolute best way to determine how good a defense is. I mean, last year? 5 INT's 10 PD's and 78 tackles? He should be dragged out into the parking lot and shot in the knee caps every day at dawn for a performance like that. That's nowhere near Nick Collins' Pro Bowl numbers from 2010 - 4 INT's, 13 PD's and 53 tackles. I mean, Nick Collins created 2 Forced fumbles that year, Peprah? Big goose egg. Fuck that guy. We got Jerron McMillion now. Peprah's taking a walk.

Terrell Manning is going to be a great sub package player for this team. He'll probably push Walden back even farther on the depth chart. This guy is a real NFL calibur player and man am I real happy about that. See, TT doesn't draft for the future, he drafts for next season. These guys absolutely need to contribute and Jerron's no different. He's going to provide the kind of pass rush that Walden and Zombo couldn't even dream of. This guy is lightyears ahead of those other ass holes, he's a real NFL calibur guy, not like Zombo and Walden. They're pieces of shit who should be washing the floor.

I am so happy, just like Wist, that TT decided to do what Wist thought he should do. I'm glad he decided not to get any good players on offense at all, I would rather him take some 4th rounder (who's totally going to play a lot) for defense than some D-bag who probably won't even see the field on offense, even if that guy is better - And we all know that's what TT did. Just admit it guys. Don't make Wist and me rub your nose in it like you're a dog who shit in the living room. It just sucks when we have to do that (although it is kind of fun to use random facts to PROVE that we were right and you were wrong you idiots). I mean, I'm extatic that we got all these awesome guys who are obviously better than the guys we got now. I mean, with all these playmakers that we added, it's impossible not to say that TT was addressing specific needs and these guys are here to fill them.

Nicely done.

[pbmax]

just making it more complicated

[pbmax]

Why can't Pickett be the starting LDE and the backup NT? Worthy plays LDE when Pickett needs a rest or when Pickett needs to spell Raji at NT. When you're only keeping probably 6 DL, can you afford 3 NT's?

Derth of large bodies from the perspective of snaps and the risk of injury. Unless its Muir, there won't be another body for the nose. Its not that radical for a six lineman roster not to have 3 Noses on it, but the replacements are smaller.

[Upnorth]

In my opinion our d last year needed a cullen jenkins and a collins to be great like the two years proceeding 2011. If we got those two in our draft this D will go down as one of the forgotten greats like the 49ers D during the Montana years. A key to a great team that nobody talks about because look at the offense!