Read This, Be Smarter: Switch to 4-3 Under and the Elephant

[pbmax]

If you have been paying attention to PackerRats draft posts, you have noticed that some of Dom Capers new toys do not look the same as the previous models. Are the Packers importing Pete Carrol's defense from USC? Would you feel better about that possibility if you knew that defense has its roots with Monte Kiffin and George Seifert? How about Belicheck using some of the ideas in his hybrid? How about Charles Haley being imported as elephant coach?

Read this article to find out. And do be misled about the article's bright line between the Packer 3-4 and the new positions of the D line in this 4-3. The Packers Eagle defense, used for the past two years, aligns the DLine in the same manner.

http://www.packernet.com/blog/2012/05/01/4-3-under-and-the-elephant-rusher/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[mraynrand]

How about Charles Haley being imported as elephant coach?

Some of those elephant trainers can be a little nuts

[smuggler]

Charles Haley is too insane to coach.

[pbmax]

Charles Haley is too insane to coach.

I think he is a coach on the Cowboys, isn't he?

Edit: Apparently not anymore, just 2001-02. He is currently being treated for being bipolar. Not exactly surprised by that.

[pbmax]

My concern with this theoretical switch is depth. If Perry were to be unavailable, who would be the elephant? Or do you switch back to the base 3-4?

And who, if you need two Perry types, would backup Pickett and Raji? That might eliminate the ability to carry 3 bodies at NT/1 gap due to the need to still have a 5 tech. I never realized how much I liked having Howard Green around. Though JSO's Silverstein wrote that Worthy might be able to take a few snaps in the middle.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Thanks for bringing up the elephant in the room pb

[Fritz]

So Chuck Haley is bi-polar...doesn't that qualify him perfectly to be a coach?

On the one hand, Ilike that Dom is not standing still - he's trying to adjust to the "new" NFL, the pass-happy offenses. And I also like that defensive linemen will no longer be asked to simply take up space. I have a nightmare reel of linemen taking up their blocker or two, then AJ Hawk getting stoned by one blocker as he charges up the middle, and CMIII being blocked, successively, by three different players - a tight end, a tackle, a running back. Ugh. So on the one hand I like this move.

On the other hand, I am afeared that we now have defensive guys on the roster who don't fit the new mold, and that the whole thing won't fit together correctly.

[Upnorth]

My concern with this theoretical switch is depth. If Perry were to be unavailable, who would be the elephant? Or do you switch back to the base 3-4?

And who, if you need two Perry types, would backup Pickett and Raji? That might eliminate the ability to carry 3 bodies at NT/1 gap due to the need to still have a 5 tech. I never realized how much I liked having Howard Green around. Though JSO's Silverstein wrote that Worthy might be able to take a few snaps in the middle.

HOwever Capers likes to throw wrinkles at QB's to make them think more. After how effective 09 and 10 were everyone studied his D in the offseason and found ways of defeating it. IF he were to role this out for a handful of snaps a game it will force the QB's to think about one more alignment and how to play it. So now there is 3-4, 2-4-5 3-3-5 and add to it some 4-3 (and a uncommon variant of it) and that equals an off balance QB.

[Lurker64]

If Perry were to be unavailable, who would be the elephant?.

So'oto. Similar body types, and the same style of pass rush will work for both of them. So'oto is just the poor man's Perry.

[3irty1]

This is essentially exactly what the Wade Phillips 3-4 has been. A 3-4 that turns into a 4-3 right after the snap. He typically has a stand-up type DE at OLB like DeMarcus Ware or Mario Williams and a tiny NT like Jay Ratliff.

[woodbuck27]

So Chuck Haley is bi-polar...doesn't that qualify him perfectly to be a coach?

On the one hand, Ilike that Dom is not standing still - he's trying to adjust to the "new" NFL, the pass-happy offenses. And I also like that defensive linemen will no longer be asked to simply take up space. I have a nightmare reel of linemen taking up their blocker or two, then AJ Hawk getting stoned by one blocker as he charges up the middle, and CMIII being blocked, successively, by three different players - a tight end, a tackle, a running back. Ugh. So on the one hand I like this move.

On the other hand, I am afeared that we now have defensive guys on the roster who don't fit the new mold, and that the whole thing won't fit together correctly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Haley

" Haley's supporters, who included the late Bill Walsh, believe his personal accomplishments, especially his record five Super Bowl rings, make him worthy of induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

However, his history of obscene, violent, and mutinous behavior during his playing days has not helped his candidacy. He was one of the fifteen finalists in 2010 and 2011; however, he was not selected.

He was inducted into the Virginia Sports Hall of Fame in 2006.

He was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2011.

On August 19, 2011, Jerry Jones, owner of the Dallas Cowboys announced that Haley will be enshrined into the prestigious Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor on November 11, 2011. " Wikipedia

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/dallas/headlines/20100102-With-therapy-grit-ex-4630.ece

http://jmusportsblog.com/?p=157

[pbmax]

HOwever Capers likes to throw wrinkles at QB's to make them think more. After how effective 09 and 10 were everyone studied his D in the offseason and found ways of defeating it. IF he were to role this out for a handful of snaps a game it will force the QB's to think about one more alignment and how to play it. So now there is 3-4, 2-4-5 3-3-5 and add to it some 4-3 (and a uncommon variant of it) and that equals an off balance QB.

Yes and last year he was getting predictable, several teams QBs said what they would do was no surprise, you just had to beat the players. I think he had to scale back with injuries and ineffectiveness.

[pbmax]

This is essentially exactly what the Wade Phillips 3-4 has been. A 3-4 that turns into a 4-3 right after the snap. He typically has a stand-up type DE at OLB like DeMarcus Ware or Mario Williams and a tiny NT like Jay Ratliff.

Does Ware stand up much? Because if that guy does, you can run even more options off it. My memory has Ware's hand on the ground. With an two-point elephant, you can rush from any lane and, like Ware, occasionally jump back to coverage.

[mraynrand]

So'oto. Similar body types, and the same style of pass rush will work for both of them. So'oto is just the poor man's Perry.

Good call. But does So'oto make the squad?

[RashanGary]

I don't consider us a 4-3 under team. We're a hybrid team. 4-2-5 against the run, 2-4-5 against the pass.


THE RUN

We can play anything from goal-line, 3-4, our most used 2-4-5, maybe some extra 3-3-5 and whatever version of dime Capers dreams up. Depending on situation, various packages will be implemented. Pickett is a pure specialty player (run.) Hargrove and Daniels are pure specialty players (pass.) It's the NFL. Teams are multi dimensional with scheme and personnel. The Packers seem to be going that route more on defense (a little more unusual than offense.)

For the sake of time, we'll just look at our highest percentage defense. Against the run, I agree, it's similar to a 4-3 under team. We can mix and match inside players depending on situation. We can be anywhere from really small, to really big inside. Outside, we're small. Perry and Matthews are our DE's. They are going to be asked to set the edge like a DE would. So we're a small, hybrid 4-3 team when it comes to the run. We have so much quickness inside and speed on the edges, there is some advantages, even against the run, but we're giving up size for athleticism.


THE PASS

Here is where I disagree with us being a 4-3 under hybrid team. For one, it would be more like 4-2, but regardless, it's not a 4 man line. Matthews is excellent at covering. Perry is going to be trained in all aspects of OLB. Against the pass, we are extremely versatile and dangerous IMO. Bishop can rush the passer well. Perry should be able to. Our inside guys are being picked based on their pass rush, and Matthews is a stud. If we flush the QB outside, we're so fast on the edges, it's going to be a disaster. We can put Matthews and/or Perry on all out blitzes. We can put Raji and/or whoever else is inside on all out blitzes. We can drop our outside guys, drop our ILBs, play contain with our inside DL and open up some of our ILB blitzes by having more threatening lineman and Perry.

In this way, we're really nothing like a 4-3 team and nothing like a 4-2 nickle team. We're a defense designed to destroy the pass game. Our OLBs are OLBs and they're assignments are very unpredictable. We have a couple studs (52 and 90.) We have some guys with some quickness inside. We have an extra DB (and that extra DB is Woodson who plays a hybrid role.) We're a team build on pass rush, pass coverage and confusion.


Summary

I guess we're a hybrid 4-2/2-4 defense (depending on if it's a run or pass) Woodson is a wrinkle. We're built on speed and quickness. McCarthy has suggested the level of play on offense had some trickle down on how offenses had to attack our defense. It appears to me, the Packers are building their team as a high flying, high scoring offense, damn good ST's, and a defense that causes turnovers and eliminates big plays (making sure teams can't match points with our high flying offense.) Oh, and their built to create turnovers and negative plays on defense above all else.


I get this impression listening to MM and Capers. Preventing big plays and getting after the QB are the 1a and 1b themes from them. Teams attacking differently to keep score is another theme from them. For years, the way to dominant on defense has been to take away the run and get teams one dimensional. It seems like the Packers are using their offenses, 2nd leading scoring team of all time, talent to take away the run, and using that as a way to force teams into one dimensional play. If we can tackle well and get after the passer, this looks like a unique recipe for big-time success.


MM and Capers are both considered among the more creative coaches of our era. To me, this looks like a different build than we've ever seen. It's similar to this, similar to that, but it's unique.