Scrutiny of the Bounty

[Fritz]

I wouldn't have minded a bounty on Pete Carroll.

[pbmax]

This sums it up pretty well:

“I know exactly what [happened] and what didn’t,” Fujita said. ”The problem with this whole thing is that it’s just an unfortunate situation where you have a defensive coordinator [Gregg Williams] who I like a lot, but said a lot of really vulgar, inappropriate, outlandish things. You couple that with some guys who occasionally throw in some money for big plays — which I have admitted to doing — and it becomes a perfect storm, and also it comes at a time politically when I think the league was looking for something like this.

“So, it’s unfortunate. It’s unfortunate that a lot of players have been dragged into it when the reality is it’s just a kind of loose, joking around, performance-type system of motivation coupled with some really, really inappropriate language that I’m sensitive to, but again, it is just language.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/22/fujita-to-goodell-at-appeal-hearing-what-the-hell-are-you-doing-roger/

[woodbuck27]

On the audio/video on the sidelines, you can't see if Hargrove is talking when the words "pay me my money" are spoken. That's because Ayodele, with his back to the camera, is blocking the view of Hargrove. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...headline_stack Ayodele was involved in the hit on Favre, so it would make more sense that he would have uttered the words. I think Hargrove is probably telling the truth.

Why would A. Hargrove lie now? He 'only' has something to gain from 'the TRUTH'.

This story is developing into a nightmare for 'the NFL'. It appears as if the NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and his evidence gatherers have set themselves up and the players allowed them to fall in the trap.

Stay tuned.

[pbmax]

Possible out for Hargrove:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/24/league-ties-give-me-my-money-video-to-claim-that-hargrove-lied/

If the League cannot convince a Court that he spoke the "pay me my money" utterance in the video, then it has no evidence Hargrove lied. But the players have to get it into a Court first and the entire structure of the CBA is designed to prevent it. Which is the main reason the NFL may come to regret publicly making this a pay to injure scheme and punishment and not solely a pay for performance issue.

[Joemailman]

NFL is now saying Hargrove was suspended for lying in 2010 about the existence of a bounty program. In other words, he's being suspended for doing what his coaches told him to do. Way to go after the heart of the problem.

[pbmax]

NFL is now saying Hargrove was suspended for lying in 2010 about the existence of a bounty program. In other words, he's being suspended for doing what his coaches told him to do. Way to go after the heart of the problem.

But his declaration about that testimony is not enough to prove he lied. Or even played dumb. A player who did not participate in, contribute to or demonstrate knowledge of the scheme wouldn't be lying to say it didn't exist or he knew nothing about it.

The declaration only says his coaches encouraged him to offer nothing but denials. Absent other proof of Hargrove's knowledge, he could walk if it gets to court.

The open question would be how accurate was the League's source who told them Hargrove admitted there was a price on Favre. That material wasn't turned over to the players during the appeal.

[pbmax]

OK. So the League (or at least the Commish) no longer holds that Hargrove said "Show me my money".

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/05/league-backs-off-view-that-hargrove-said-give-me-my-money/

That means you have his declaration that he was instructed to play dumb, possible comments to Viking Jimmy Kennedy (who was not mentioned in coverage of Goodell's upholding of Hargrove's suspension) and the fact that Hargrove should have heard whoever said "show me my money".

Is that enough to suspend him for eight games? If Hargrove didn't contribute money, collect money and never saw anyone actually deposit the cash, can't he claim that he was unaware of an actual bounty program? That he thought it was all show and motivational ploy?

On the other side of the coin, whoever headed up this investigation should be immediately fired for making the League look this dumb and clueless. Not two weeks after presenting supporting evidence to players and media, the League then disavows one of of its 16 articles of contention. Vilma and Fulita have all but said it was a routine pay for performance that the League

Vilma and Fulita have all but said it was a routine pay for performance that the League mischaracterized as pay to injure. But the League has scant evidence of former as well.

[Smidgeon]

When this first came out, I was okay with the suspensions of the coaches because of their responsibility as leaders of the team. But when the suspensions of the players came out, and all this information is coming available, I've become quite convinced that the NFL screwed up. Maybe the coaches still deserve to be suspended, I don't know, but they screwed up in the evaluation of the players. Badly.

[pbmax]

The hand written notes (that we have never seen, only transcribed versions have been made public) that list amounts pledged for various acts against the Vikings has been called into question by 2 witnesses. Vitt says he never pledged $5,000 to hurt Favre (indeed, would he be coaching this year if the League believed he did?). And Mike Ornstein says he did NOT confirm for the League that Vilma pledged $10,000 for Favre to be knocked out of the game.

The League says it has three substantiating witnesses for the Vilma money; Gregg Williams, Mike Ornstein and an unknown person. Ornstein has denied it, seemingly against his own self interest, Williams won't talk and the 3rd witness would most obviously be the author of the notes, disgruntled ex-coach Mike Cerullo.

Sound like a credible piece of evidence to you?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/06/goodell-disregarded-vitt-ornstein-post-june-18-comments/