An Unusual 3rd & Long Defensive Package

[The Shadow]

On a 3rd & long situation, here's a defensive package I would like to see Capers experiment with:
Mike Daniels & Nick Perry rushing from the inside.
Clay & Dezman Moses on the outside.
Francois as a Mike LB.
The 6 DBs? Woodson in the slot, Tramon & House on the outide, Hayward, Burnett & Jennings.

[mission]

I like the concept... hope Dom is reading.

[pbmax]

On a 3rd & long situation, here's a defensive package I would like to see Capers experiment with:
Mike Daniels & Nick Perry rushing from the inside.
Clay & Dezman Moses on the outside.
Francois as a Mike LB.
The 6 DBs? Woodson in the slot, Tramon & House on the outide, Hayward, Burnett & Jennings.

How about Raji/Worthy at Nose, Perry and Mathews at OLB, 1 LB and seven DB? Because I think I saw that twice. Although, on LB and not the seventh DB could have been off the screen.

Stunning thing was unlike last year, they got enough into the pocket to cause the QB to move.

[RashanGary]

I'm fine with an unbalanced line with Worthy and Raji playing between the center and guards, Perry lining up as a 7-tech DE, Matthews and Moses lining up as OLBs, Bush as ILB with whoever your top 5 DB's are.

[The Shadow]

When the run is not really likely - and the quickness of the mentioned players makes the occasional draw not likely to succeed - I see no reason not to try a combo of really disprutive players coming after the quarterback. Perry seems already very good at the bull rush; Daniels seems quick & penetrating, and Clay & Moses seem relentless. Get that quarterback worried & quick to go to happy feet!

[pbmax]

When the run is not really likely - and the quickness of the mentioned players makes the occasional draw not likely to succeed - I see no reason not to try a combo of really disprutive players coming after the quarterback. Perry seems already very good at the bull rush; Daniels seems quick & penetrating, and Clay & Moses seem relentless. Get that quarterback worried & quick to go to happy feet!

Its an interesting question and the point you make is solid. I think most D coordinators who employ zones find it easier to drop many into coverage and simply force an easy short throw and if tackling isn't an issue, get the ball back.

What you propose offers a similar return with the hope of additional positive yardage for the defense. Yet by committing one more to rush, there is a coverage hole where there might not otherwise be. And if the rushers are not disciplined (and it looks like you are going for speed rush there), there is a possible QB escape. So you risk more to gain yardage. I could see using such an approach when you need field position desperately or the QB (mobility) or receivers (speed/deep routes) are unlikely to be able to defeat it.

Also not sure about Perry inside on the rush.

[The Shadow]

Its an interesting question and the point you make is solid. I think most D coordinators who employ zones find it easier to drop many into coverage and simply force an easy short throw and if tackling isn't an issue, get the ball back.

What you propose offers a similar return with the hope of additional positive yardage for the defense. Yet by committing one more to rush, there is a coverage hole where there might not otherwise be. And if the rushers are not disciplined (and it looks like you are going for speed rush there), there is a possible QB escape. So you risk more to gain yardage. I could see using such an approach when you need field position desperately or the QB (mobility) or receivers (speed/deep routes) are unlikely to be able to defeat it.

Also not sure about Perry inside on the rush.

I think Perry's best asset right now is the bull rush, and he might be pretty effective at pushing the interior pocket so a qb could not step up.

[wist43]

So you want to play a defense that has the largest defender on the field at 280 lbs?? What happens when the offense forms a circle around the QB, and they decide to just walk him down the field and into the end zone; swatting would-be defenders away like annoying gnats?? Defensive backs on their hands and knees trying to reach inside the circle and untie the QB's shoelaces in the hope that he will trip??

I hate having only 2 DL on the field - and I would never send only 3... Dom loves to play patsy defense though, so I'm sure your idea is already in the playbook.

Might as well take all the DL off the field and play all 11 in coverage. Anyone weighing more that 180 lbs is not welcome.

[George Cumby]

So you want to play a defense that has the largest defender on the field at 280 lbs?? What happens when the offense forms a circle around the QB, and they decide to just walk him down the field and into the end zone; swatting would-be defenders away like annoying gnats?? Defensive backs on their hands and knees trying to reach inside the circle and untie the QB's shoelaces in the hope that he will trip??

I hate having only 2 DL on the field - and I would never send only 3... Dom loves to play patsy defense though, so I'm sure your idea is already in the playbook.

Might as well take all the DL off the field and play all 11 in coverage. Anyone weighing more that 180 lbs is not welcome.

IIRC Dom called those 2 DL defenses during their SB run to good effect.

Or am I mistaken?

[mraynrand]

Stunning thing was unlike last year, they got enough into the pocket to cause the QB to move.

That's the key, right? That's why I cringe when they rush 3, even when the other team has third and Dickey. You have to bring another guy from another angle to at least force the QB to move his feet, break concentration on what's downfield. Given enough time, even lousy receivers can get open, especially with Bush in coverage. gotta have that pressure...

[mraynrand]

Defensive backs on their hands and knees trying to reach inside the circle and untie the QB's shoelaces in the hope that he will trip??

EDS plays on offense, but he can get those shoes untied in an instant

[wist43]

IIRC Dom called those 2 DL defenses during their SB run to good effect.

Or am I mistaken?

Did we not set the all-time NFL record for most putrid defense last year - playing a 2 man line 138% of the time?? Or am I mistaken?? Good grief, we gave up an avg of 411 yds/game last year.

I understand that most Packer fans consider pressuring the QB to be impolite, but I'm old school - to me, defense is about pressure first, coverage second. The NY Giants secondary is average at best - but they put up one hellish pass rush. Page 1 of my playbook is send all 11, and make compromises to dropping into coverage from there.

Why did we even bother drafting any front seven guys this year, if all Dom is going to do is put 2 smallish DL on the field with 9 merengue dancers??

[George Cumby]

Did we not set the all-time NFL record for most putrid defense last year - playing a 2 man line 138% of the time?? Or am I mistaken?? Good grief, we gave up an avg of 411 yds/game last year.

I understand that most Packer fans consider pressuring the QB to be impolite, but I'm old school - to me, defense is about pressure first, coverage second. The NY Giants secondary is average at best - but they put up one hellish pass rush. Page 1 of my playbook is send all 11, and make compromises to dropping into coverage from there.

Why did we even bother drafting any front seven guys this year, if all Dom is going to do is put 2 smallish DL on the field with 9 merengue dancers??

I, for one, do not dispute the wretched display of defense last year.

However, I recall the SB year being a year of solid, intimidating defense which involved multiple fronts including the one and two man fronts which still allowed pressure.

I don't think any realistic fan would consider making the opposing QB uncomfortable to be "impolite". Personally, I would like to see every opponents QB leave the field in tears.

[LegandofthePack15]

On a 3rd & long situation, here's a defensive package I would like to see Capers experiment with:
Mike Daniels & Nick Perry rushing from the inside.
Clay & Dezman Moses on the outside.
Francois as a Mike LB.
The 6 DBs? Woodson in the slot, Tramon & House on the outide, Hayward, Burnett & Jennings.

Basically, you are suggesting a 1 (DL) - 4(LBs) - 6 (DBs) defense. Capers has used such package before.

Its called:

[pbmax]

That's the key, right? That's why I cringe when they rush 3, even when the other team has third and Dickey. You have to bring another guy from another angle to at least force the QB to move his feet, break concentration on what's downfield. Given enough time, even lousy receivers can get open, especially with Bush in coverage. gotta have that pressure...

Its a weird mix. You would think the QB would just stand back there and wait. And if its Rothliesberger or Farve, they do. But most other QBs start to float to maintain the pocket. Then some O lineman doesn't notice and blocks or leverages the wrong way on a pass rusher and suddenly there is pressure even if its easy to escape. It doesn't take much time for most pockets to collapse even when they shouldn't. But you have to have three people who will not give up and try to jump up and bat the pass down.

The Steelers of yore (Cowher era) did that and so did the Packers of 2010. Most QBs don't want to run so wist's fear of the QB amoeba play is poorly founded with some easy to guess exceptions.

But the Packers of 2009 and 2011 never got near or suffered loose coverage that defeated the purpose of playing deep zone coverage. You do not need to get home every time on this alignment, but the QB needs to think you might. And the underneath must be so wide open that its too enticing to avoid.

Communication is key because of the O can just run crossing routes or scrape defenders, the path to a first down is wide open. So you need play side assistance. With the Packers CBs focus on man coverage, this sometimes is an adventure and they get there too late, take a bad angle or make a terrible tackle attempt.