Receiving yards leaders of 2011 (40 yard dash times)

[Lurker64]

40 yard times for a wr is almost meaningless. Where are speed demonsAshley Lelie and Donte Stallworth today? The days of Bob Hayes and Cliff Branch are long gone.

40 times for WRs are meaningful, but they are not the be-all-and-end-all like some people (like the late Al Davis towards the end) think it is. There are other things that matter for a guy's ability to catch passes as a wide receiver: Hands, Wingspan, Burst, Change of Direction skills, physicality, ball skills, route-running savvy, body control, etc.

Jerry Rice is widely perceived as the greatest receiver of the modern era, and he was never that fast, but made up for it in other ways. However, the consensus second best receiver of the modern era, Randy Moss, is a player whose game was predicated on his ability to beat more or less anybody deep (when he wanted to). The consensus best receiver now is Calvin Johnson, and that guy's game is based mostly on the fact that he is ridiculously fast (4.35) for a man as big as he is (6050 239).

I mean, hell, Jordy Nelson's game is largely predicated on his physicality and his long speed (his short area quickness is not great, but he's got an extra gear.)

You don't need to be fast to be good, but you always want to be fast, since it's better.

If you had a receiver who ran a 5.3 he won't be playing in this league no matter how good he is at the other stuff. He could be covered by a couple of the league's better nose tackles!

[smuggler]

Is that sarcasm? Pretty sure Roddy White is a beast.

He had 15 drops last year (13% of catchable passes), leading the league. He's been in the top-5 in drops for 3 of the past 4 years, so yeah, I'd say he has pretty bad hands. He's not as overrated as he's been in the past, but he's not elite.

[RashanGary]

I agree with Lurker. It matters. It's one of several attributes that make a receiver productive. I think every team wants at least one guy who can stretch the field.


The thing about Randy Moss though, both Tom Brady and Brett Favre said the thing people don't realize about him is how smart of a player he is. Not only that, he had amazing hands and an amazing ability to come down with jump balls. He was fast, very fast, but there have been a lot of very fast players who absolutely sucked. Moss's speed was a part of his game, but he was so much more than that. He's one of the most skilled receivers of our era on top of one of the fastest. Take away his skill and he's a fast guy who's in bad position and can't catch a ball. Knock him down to 4.45 and he's still a great player.

Speed is nice, but being able to be where the QB expects you to be, short area separation, positioning and being able to catch the ball are so much more important, it's not even close. There is a point where slow is too slow, but it's below 4.5 and most people on forums consider 4.5 to be too slow. Everyone wants a 4.4 player, but Fitz isn't even a 4.60 player and he'll go down as one of the most accomplished WR's in NFL history. Same with Rice.

The positions I like speed most are probably OLB, CB and safety. But even then, savvy and football skill far outweigh 40 yard dash times.

[Brandon494]

He had 15 drops last year (13% of catchable passes), leading the league. He's been in the top-5 in drops for 3 of the past 4 years, so yeah, I'd say he has pretty bad hands. He's not as overrated as he's been in the past, but he's not elite.

Does he have the best hands? No, but when you catch 100+ passes two seasons in a row you don't have bad hands.

[Lurker64]

Does he have the best hands? No, but when you catch 100+ passes two seasons in a row you don't have bad hands.

When your QB is Matty Checkdown, it's entirely possible that White's catch numbers are somewhat inflated. I mean, is he hot garbage? No. But I think he's pretty overrated. I would take Jennings and Nelson over White.

[Brandon494]

When your QB is Matty Checkdown, it's entirely possible that White's catch numbers are somewhat inflated. I mean, is he hot garbage? No. But I think he's pretty overrated. I would take Jennings and Nelson over White.

I'm sorry but that is what I called being a biased Packer fan. Nelson over Roddy White?

Nelson has Jennings taking opposing teams #1 CB, Finley occupying the safety attention, and has the best QB in the league throwing him perfect bombs down field. Now I'm not complaining by any means because the shit works but you guys need to stop acting like Nelson is a top 10 WR in the league. Roddy is a top WR in this league, does he drop some easy balls? Yup, but go ahead and tell me another weakness he has in his game. Shit even the great white hope had 3 drops in the Super Bowl.

[OS PA]

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[rbaloha1]

40 times for WRs are meaningful, but they are not the be-all-and-end-all like some people (like the late Al Davis towards the end) think it is. There are other things that matter for a guy's ability to catch passes as a wide receiver: Hands, Wingspan, Burst, Change of Direction skills, physicality, ball skills, route-running savvy, body control, etc.

Jerry Rice is widely perceived as the greatest receiver of the modern era, and he was never that fast, but made up for it in other ways. However, the consensus second best receiver of the modern era, Randy Moss, is a player whose game was predicated on his ability to beat more or less anybody deep (when he wanted to). The consensus best receiver now is Calvin Johnson, and that guy's game is based mostly on the fact that he is ridiculously fast (4.35) for a man as big as he is (6050 239).

I mean, hell, Jordy Nelson's game is largely predicated on his physicality and his long speed (his short area quickness is not great, but he's got an extra gear.)

You don't need to be fast to be good, but you always want to be fast, since it's better.

If you had a receiver who ran a 5.3 he won't be playing in this league no matter how good he is at the other stuff. He could be covered by a couple of the league's better nose tackles!

Again 40 yard times are mostly meaningless -- yes if you run a 5.3 even with other great attributes you are disqualified from the NFL. Its a minute part of the equation.

Johnson and Moss are physical freaks (exceptions) with great 40 times as a bonus. Its the numerous other attributes that make them great. Other big and physical receivers like Terrell Owens, Amani Toomer, Plaxico Burress, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Sterling Sharpe, Brandon Marshall, Chad Johnson, etc. do not rely on 40 times to make plays.

Relying on stats is a lazy method for evaluating talent. Football is not Moneyball.

[rbaloha1]

I'm sorry but that is what I called being a biased Packer fan. Nelson over Roddy White?

Nelson has Jennings taking opposing teams #1 CB, Finley occupying the safety attention, and has the best QB in the league throwing him perfect bombs down field. Now I'm not complaining by any means because the shit works but you guys need to stop acting like Nelson is a top 10 WR in the league. Roddy is a top WR in this league, does he drop some easy balls? Yup, but go ahead and tell me another weakness he has in his game. Shit even the great white hope had 3 drops in the Super Bowl.

What would expect from the tea party? Heck they probably still put Hawk in the top 10 due to his amazing Combine Numbers. LOL

[Lurker64]

I'm sorry but that is what I called being a biased Packer fan. Nelson over Roddy White?

There are NFL people who will tell you that Nelson is a tougher matchup than Jennings.

For example, Michael Lombardi of NFL.com/NFLN has Nelson as one of the blue chip receivers (along with C. Johnson, Fitzgerald, Cruz, and Green) while Jennings only merited red chip status (along with Wallace, A. Johnson, S. Johnson, V. Jackson, Marshall, Colsoton, Smith, Welker, and A. Brown)

He also notes that Julio Jones is closer to being a red chip (or blue chip) player than Roddy White.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000055261/article/eli-manning-rob-gronkowski-among-bluered-chips-on-offense

[rbaloha1]

There are NFL people who will tell you that Nelson is a tougher matchup than Jennings.

For example, Michael Lombardi of NFL.com/NFLN has Nelson as one of the blue chip receivers (along with C. Johnson, Fitzgerald, Cruz, and Green) while Jennings only merited red chip status (along with Wallace, A. Johnson, S. Johnson, V. Jackson, Marshall, Colsoton, Smith, Welker, and A. Brown)

He also notes that Julio Jones is closer to being a red chip (or blue chip) player than Roddy White.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...ips-on-offense

Nelson had a phenomenal season due to teams considering Nelson the #3 option. Its almost impossible to determine if teams treated Nelson as the #1 receiver what the outcome would be.

Nelson disappointed in the Chiefs game when Jennings was out.

[Brandon494]

That list meaning nothing to me, Clay Matthews didn't even make the list at OLB for blue or red chip player.

[Lurker64]

That list meaning nothing to me, Clay Matthews didn't even make the list at OLB for blue or red chip player.

I'm just saying that "Jordy Nelson is better than Roddy White" is hardly an opinion that is held only by Packer homers.

[mission]

Trust me, in Atlanta they recognize that Roddy is good but he's not even the best WR on his own team. They're enamored by Julio Jones and just want Roddy to shut up enough on twitter to not give other teams bulletin board material. He's lost a little of his mojo in the last couple seasons and being a guy who was never a burner, the half step has given him some problems creating separation.

And not that this means anything, but I had a chance to take him over Jordy in my paid FF league and I took Jordy. $1000 to the winner -- I hope I'm not just a homer!

[Lurker64]

Trust me, in Atlanta they recognize that Roddy is good but he's not even the best WR on his own team.

Well, he's not. If Quintorris puts it together, and Atlanta gets a better quarterback somehow, he could be a top 5 WR in this league, easy.

Among other things, Julio is quite a bit faster than Roddy White.