Mice And Men - Texans

[Pugger]

I thought it was funny because I think I'm the only one left making excuses for him. Seriously, I'm not his agent or anything, but I'm going to keep making those excuses until the guy gets better!

I don't make excuses for him. He has not played as well as he has in the past and I think this is what frustrates us. But there are is a group of fans who hate him not because he drops passes but because of his silly tweets! I for one don't give a damn what some player tweets. From here it appears he works hard at practice, is well liked by his coaches and teammates and stays out of trouble off the field. He isn't the only one dropping passes but because he isn't the most eloquent speaker in the world with his tweets he is the one who is railed upon by fans.

[Patler]

I don't make excuses for him. He has not played as well as he has in the past and I think this is what frustrates us. But there are is a group of fans who hate him not because he drops passes but because of his silly tweets! I for one don't give a damn what some player tweets. From here it appears he works hard at practice, is well liked by his coaches and teammates and stays out of trouble off the field. He isn't the only one dropping passes but because he isn't the most eloquent speaker in the world with his tweets he is the one who is railed upon by fans.

Comm on, be fair. Yes, everyone drops passes, but no one on the Packers is dropping them at the rate Finley is. The guy leads the league in drops, according to the announcers a couple games ago. That goes well beyond what anyone else is dropping.

Why is it that just because someone is critical of a players performance, that person has to be referred to as a "hater". I have been very critical of Bulaga this year. Does that mean I hate Bulaga? It is entirely possible to dislike a players performance while having no personal feeling toward the player at all. It is entirely possible to dislike the inane comments made by a player without having that as the basis for judgement of his performance on the field.

[George Cumby]

If one truly "hates" a player, one needs to spend two weeks in the slums of Bangladesh to gain some perspective on life. I am not suggesting that anyone here is that..... lost.

Five years is long enough to assess what a player is. Finley is what he is: a mega-talented underachiever who isn't going to magically get his head right.

Rand, you are killing me with your Finley defense. I don't remember you as a Fin Fan. Are you doing it to tilt windmills?

[mraynrand]

If one truly "hates" a player, one needs to spend two weeks in the slums of Bangladesh to gain some perspective on life. I am not suggesting that anyone here is that..... lost.

Let me tell you this: after four years in Bangladesh with crappy dialup and having to power my computer with a bicycle-driven generator, I got perspective coming out of my ass.

Five years is long enough to assess what a player is. Finley is what he is: a mega-talented underachiever who isn't going to magically get his head right.

Rand, you are killing me with your Finley defense. I don't remember you as a Fin Fan. Are you doing it to tilt windmills?

Mostly the former, but a little of the latter. Love Finley. He will get his mind right, I am sure. I just hope it's with the Packers. Or else

[LegandofthePack15]

I don't hate any player, but I do try to objectively evaluate their role on a team, and how they fit in both as to performance and with respect to the salary cap. For a few years many decades ago I was paid for my comments on high school and college players, and much later I ran around the US and Canada for the better part of 20 years to watch and evaluate young hockey players (through Juniors) because of various ownership interests I still have and related team responsibilities I had for 15 years or so. I learned very early to distinguish potential and athletic ability from actual performance on the field or ice. It is very easy to look at a physical specimen who looks great in practice and then give him more credit than he deserves for his actual game performance. It is easy to watch him do something well, looking graceful doing it, and automatically think no one else could have done it because he is just so gifted. But if you watch critically you will often see a much less gifted athlete do the same thing, but much less gracefully. The truly exceptional plays that only few can perform are much less common, and leap out at you.

Had you been here 3 and 4 years ago, you would have seen me as one of Finley's biggest supporters. I praised him at every opportunity for how he changed from his rookie year. I said his change in both attitude and performance were among the best that I remembered. I thought he really was on his way to becoming one of the dominant TEs. At that point, he really was making exceptional plays. I remember him just calmly snatching the ball away from DBs trying to cover him, and looking like a man among boys at times by just physically dominating plays (as a receiver, he has always been a very inconsistent blocker).

Two years ago, while out injured, he seemed to change his attitude again. An aggravation at the time, but no big deal. However, for nearly a season and a half his on the field performance has regressed badly. He now plays "small". The PI call is a good example. His combination of size and athletic skill should allow him to minimize the hand battles with defenders. He does not physically impose himself on the defender. Playing small got him the PI call on Sunday. His best plays are not ones that others can't make, and when given the opportunity to make exceptional plays, he has failed most of the time.

He is in his fifth year. Chances are high that he is all that he will ever be. It is not very common for a player to change dramatically after 5 years in the league, but two things are in Finley's favor with respect to that; he is still quite young having come out very early, and he has been injured often and has not had lengthy, consistent opportunities while not injured. Of course, the injuries raise an entirely different issue in and of themselves when considering his long-term role.

You can only baby along a guy because of potential for so long. I think that time has come for Finley. Five years is a long time in the NFL. As I have said before, if he goes somewhere else, the change of scenery might set him free to become a star, but at this point it is looking unlikely that will happen in GB. For that reason, I think it is time to put him on notice that there are others behind him who can do what he is doing. If he wants to hold the job he has to start doing the things that the others can not. If he can't do those things, a cheaper alternative to Finley is in the teams best interest.

Cheaper doesn't always mean better.

Thompson let Wahle and Rivera walk and he replaced them with cheapos like Klemm and Whittacker. Favre was sacked more times that season than a porn star. Thompson thought Sharper was over-the-hill and overpaid, so he released D-Sharp. D-Sharp continued to be a pro-bowl player for the Vikings and Saints. All the while, the Packers struggle at the safety position with cheapo like Little, Manual and Rouse.

Some folks are like, lets bench Finley for Williams, Crabtree or Quarless. Well, no D-cordinator game plan for those guys. I'd like to see what they can do when teams start keying them. I honestly think J-Mike would be putting up Graham/Gronk-type numbers if he were on a team without so many weapons.

[ThunderDan]

Cheaper doesn't always mean better.

Thompson let Wahle and Rivera walk and he replaced them with cheapos like Klemm and Whittacker. Favre was sacked more times that season than a porn star. Thompson thought Sharper was over-the-hill and overpaid, so he released D-Sharp. D-Sharp continued to be a pro-bowl player for the Vikings and Saints. All the while, the Packers struggle at the safety position with cheapo like Little, Manual and Rouse.

Some folks are like, lets bench Finley for Williams, Crabtree or Quarless. Well, no D-cordinator game plan for those guys. I'd like to see what they can do when teams start keying them. I honestly think J-Mike would be putting up Graham/Gronk-type numbers if he were on a team without so many weapons.

Just wait .... it's coming. And then you are going to get a giant stamp on your ass.

[LegandofthePack15]

Just wait .... it's coming. And then you are going to get a giant stamp on your ass.

Let me quote you. I'll bump this thread up sometimes in the near future when J-Mike is ruling the world.

[sharpe1027]

Cheaper doesn't always mean better.

Thompson let Wahle and Rivera walk and he replaced them with cheapos like Klemm and Whittacker. Favre was sacked more times that season than a porn star. Thompson thought Sharper was over-the-hill and overpaid, so he released D-Sharp. D-Sharp continued to be a pro-bowl player for the Vikings and Saints. All the while, the Packers struggle at the safety position with cheapo like Little, Manual and Rouse.

Some folks are like, lets bench Finley for Williams, Crabtree or Quarless. Well, no D-cordinator game plan for those guys. I'd like to see what they can do when teams start keying them. I honestly think J-Mike would be putting up Graham/Gronk-type numbers if he were on a team without so many weapons.

To be fair, Wahle and Rivera were allowed to "walk" because wasted cap money on other players left no room to sign them (at least not both, probably not either). Sharper was a probowl player because he got a lot of picks, but he also had a reputation for gambling too much trying to get those picks. Was he worth the salary he got from the Queens? Maybe.

Cheaper for a worse player does not always mean better, but sometimes it does. If letting Finley goes means keeping a guy like Jennings (or some other good player), it might be considered better.

[LP]

I honestly think J-Mike would be putting up Graham/Gronk-type numbers if he were on a team without so many weapons.

Graham, Gronk, Gonzalez and others actually catch the ball consistently. Other weapons or not, Finely doesn't. Not anymore. It'd be really, really nice if he would again, but he doesn't. And that's not hating. It's just a fact.

[ThunderDan]

Let me quote you. I'll bump this thread up sometimes in the near future when J-Mike is ruling the world.

Why? What have I said other than trying to be objective about his play. I hope he turns it around.

I was sure Patler was going to correct you on your Wahle and Rivera comments. They were let go because of no cap room not because of performance issues.

[Patler]

Cheaper doesn't always mean better.

Thompson let Wahle and Rivera walk and he replaced them with cheapos like Klemm and Whittacker. Favre was sacked more times that season than a porn star. Thompson thought Sharper was over-the-hill and overpaid, so he released D-Sharp. D-Sharp continued to be a pro-bowl player for the Vikings and Saints. All the while, the Packers struggle at the safety position with cheapo like Little, Manual and Rouse.

Some folks are like, lets bench Finley for Williams, Crabtree or Quarless. Well, no D-cordinator game plan for those guys. I'd like to see what they can do when teams start keying them. I honestly think J-Mike would be putting up Graham/Gronk-type numbers if he were on a team without so many weapons.

I didn't say cheaper means better, but sometime cheaper does provide advantages for the team w/r/t the salary cap.

Wahle, Rivera and Sharper (who declined renegotiation to stay) were unaffordable under the salary cap at the time. TT didn't have many options at the time, especially when Sharper refused to renegotiate.

Even if Finley starts playing up to his potential, it might be better to use the money he would receive to pay someone else. Same with Jennings. Probably not both.

Wolf had to let many good players leave, even all-pros, just to stay under the cap. TT is getting into a similar situation with so many good, young players neding contracts in the neext couple years.

[George Cumby]

Ya, when Brandon switched sides and gave up on Finley it was quite remarkable!

When was this? I would LOVE to see that post. His battles with you over Fin were like Rocky and Apollo Creed.

[Joemailman]

When was this? I would LOVE to see that post. His battles with you over Fin were like Rocky and Apollo Creed.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...ht=#post690400

Give DJ Williams more playing time, I'm done with Finley.

[George Cumby]

Thanks Joe. 'Preciate it.

[Brandon494]

Ya, when Brandon switched sides and gave up on Finley it was quite remarkable!

Only because hes doing shit for my fantasy team.