Alex Green

[Fritz]

I think MM has been doing everything he can to hide the poor play of the offensive line especially after Seattle. They cannot run or pass protect against average or better DL.

I agree that this is about a poor offensive line. Benson got what little could be had; Green gets less. That is damning for those who thought Green was the Next Big Thing (one poster who is no longer posting kept talking about how TT was so excited whenever he mentioned Green), but for the team, what is more damning is that this was supposed to be the line of the future, except maybe for Saturday.

I don't know enough about o-line play to know if one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch, or if they are all sucky. I have been disappointed especially with TJ Lang. I thought he was going to be the next Marco Rivera, but no.

In sum, I'm disappointed that Green has done so little, but I'm even more disappointed in the play of the offensive line.

[mmmdk]

I agree that this is about a poor offensive line. Benson got what little could be had; Green gets less. That is damning for those who thought Green was the Next Big Thing (one poster who is no longer posting kept talking about how TT was so excited whenever he mentioned Green), but for the team, what is more damning is that this was supposed to be the line of the future, except maybe for Saturday.

I don't know enough about o-line play to know if one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch, or if they are all sucky. I have been disappointed especially with TJ Lang. I thought he was going to be the next Marco Rivera, but no.

In sum, I'm disappointed that Green has done so little, but I'm even more disappointed in the play of the offensive line.

Very well put, I was getting worried that I was amongst the few that could see it. Take a look at video evidence and you'll see that Packers are been moved aound easily and they are not opening many holes. I'm going to cut Green some slack here. BTW, I watched the Raiders vs Jags game from last week..that Jags front seven is pretty damn good!

[pbmax]

I'm having a hard time figuring the run game out....is it Green or is it the OL? Even shitty teams break off 10-15 yard runs from time to time. Why is it that we are incapable of running when there are only 6 in the box?!?! McGinn had some pretty damning quotes from opposing coaches about Saturday the other day.

Cliff Cristl, Cleft Crusty and Eric Baranczykiehfowifhjspfs say its NOT the O line: http://www.packersnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

The answer, perhaps, is that they aren't very good. But they aren't this awful either. Give Starks a shot. Problem with that is, it will take him three games to get to full speed.

[Patler]

Cliff Cristl, Cleft Crusty and Eric Baranczykiehfowifhjspfs say its NOT the O line: http://www.packersnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

The answer, perhaps, is that they aren't very good. But they aren't this awful either. Give Starks a shot. Problem with that is, it will take him three games to get to full speed.

Ya, except yesterday Clements seemed to contradict a lot of what CC and EB criticized in their article, that Green showed no patience on Sunday.

“Most of the runs that we had in (Sunday) were more downhill runs where you’re trying to get to the line quicker,” Clements said when asked whether Green needed to show more patience. “We had Evan Dietrich-Smith in there a couple of times at different positions where he was essentially trapping one of their linemen, and that’s a quick-hitting type play. A lot of the other plays were quick-hitting. When we do more of the outside zone or the inside zone, that requires some patience.”

But then, MM said that Green "didn't have one of his better days".

I think there is plenty of blame to go around for the inexperienced Green and the under performing O-line.

Might as well give Starks more chances. A game or two of extended use and he will be back on the injured list, and that distraction can be put to rest!

[pbmax]

Ya, except yesterday Clements seemed to contradict a lot of what CC and EB criticized in their article, that Green showed no patience on Sunday.



But then, MM said that Green "didn't have one of his better days".

I think there is plenty of blame to go around for the inexperienced Green and the under performing O-line.

Might as well give Starks more chances. A game or two of extended use and he will be back on the injured list, and that distraction can be put to rest!

I could be wrong, but EDS at FB gave Green his best run. Or perhaps one of his best two.

[Pugger]

CedBen only played in 4 games before hurting is foot in his 5th so he was just getting settled in before he went down. I checked his stats and he was getting close to his career average per carry this year = 3.5. I'll take 3.5 any day of the week, especially behind this line. He and other superior backs are able to get yards even after contact, something Starks and Green don't do very often.

[Bossman641]

To my eye, it looks like the blame falls more on the OL than on Green. He certainly isn't helping them, but it just seems like the interior line gets no push at all. Even on pass plays they get walked back. I know Lang has something going on with his arm that is robbing him of power and Saturday is what he is at this point, but why can't we run more effectively behind Sitton and Bulaga? Are Saturday and Lang that poor at cutting off the backside?

[Smidgeon]

This is what I see (unofficial observations and just my opinion):

Green does not setup the cutback by utilizing his blockers and making a defender commit before picking a hole. Contrast his runs with Benson's, both behind the same O-line. Benson would look like he was hitting one gap to force a defender to commit and then he would switch directions to hit another gap. This generally put a blocker between him and the committed defender. The result was a lot of 3-5 yard runs. Green generally just picks a hole and goes hard into the hole. The result is a lot of 0-2 yard runs. If you get Green in open space, he's pretty dynamic for a big back, but he needs to read and setup the blocks better before he can run between the tackles consistently.

Sounds a lot like how I run in Madden...

[Smidgeon]

I don't disagree that Benson is better. My point was with respect to Red's suggestion (at least the way I read his comment) that perhaps the O-line isn't so much at fault. Personally, I think the O-line has been mostly awful, regardless of whether it has been Benson or Green carrying. Benson got more because he is just a better back. Hence my comment that he gets more out of nothing. Benson's 71/248 compared to Green's 76/219 doesn't leap out as an indication that the O-line is doing a good job, when virtually every team has geared to stop Rodgers and has dared the Packers to run against them. Benson is better than Green, but the O-line has not been getting the job done for either one. If they were, Benson would have achieved more success than he did.

I heard Wayne Larivee yesterday morning on WTMJ summarizing a discussion he had with Mark Tauscher. While acknowledging that they miss Benson, he basically said the O-line is getting manhandled, and there hasn't been much there for any of the backs.

Personally, I don't think the O-line has been doing that great of a job at pass protection either. Rodgers has been responsible for his share of the sacks, too; but rarely does he ever get the luxury of dropping back, setting and throwing from a clean pocket.

So weak talent on the O-line and at RB. Time for TT to draft six offensive players in a row...and hope they aren't offensive.

[RashanGary]

So weak talent on the O-line and at RB. Time for TT to draft six offensive players in a row...and hope they aren't offensive.

Might want to give lang this week off. Apparently hsi elbow is a problem. This week, and the bye week might be really good for him. EDS is a servicable player. With Langs injury, he might be as good. In the short term, it might be a wash. In the long term, if Lang gets healthier, it would be a gain.

Also might want to consider EDS replacing Saturday eventually. Even if Saturday takes the job back at some point, he's old. Again, a player who could benefit greatly by some time off. In his case, to regain strength.

[RashanGary]

Also, maybe Starks should be 1st and 2nd down, with Green 3rd down. Green has a little ways to go. Hard to tell if he just doesn't have that vision, or if he's over-thinking. It's just hard to tell what we have. The sample is a little small. I'm not a big Starks fan, but he is better than what Green has shown when he decides to play a more straight ahead style, rather than trying to have patience (he just seems to go backwards when he's more patient.

That thing is a work in progress. I do give credit to MM for sticking with it. It's only going to get better with repetition. We don't have the defense we had in 2010. If we're going to win down the stretch, it's going to have to be a combination of ST's, improved defense over last year, and improved running game. It certainly can happen, and committing to the run game, I think, is going to be a part of that.

Benson is the right fit. He sets up blocks well, and gets the yards that are there. He's a big improvement over last year and may go a long way toward giving us that edge we need to win the big games. I do like Green a lot on 3rd down. He's blocked well, and shows some big play qualities in space.

[Fritz]

Also, maybe Starks should be 1st and 2nd down, with Green 3rd down. Green has a little ways to go. Hard to tell if he just doesn't have that vision, or if he's over-thinking. It's just hard to tell what we have. The sample is a little small. I'm not a big Starks fan, but he is better than what Green has shown when he decides to play a more straight ahead style, rather than trying to have patience (he just seems to go backwards when he's more patient.

That thing is a work in progress. I do give credit to MM for sticking with it. It's only going to get better with repetition. We don't have the defense we had in 2010. If we're going to win down the stretch, it's going to have to be a combination of ST's, improved defense over last year, and improved running game. It certainly can happen, and committing to the run game, I think, is going to be a part of that.

Benson is the right fit. He sets up blocks well, and gets the yards that are there. He's a big improvement over last year and may go a long way toward giving us that edge we need to win the big games. I do like Green a lot on 3rd down. He's blocked well, and shows some big play qualities in space.

The offense has seemed to run a different kind of running play the last few weeks: the more traditonal straight-ahead type of run. If and when Benson comes back, would that play to his advantage or disadvantage? And how about Starks? What type of running plays suit him best?

[Cleft Crusty]

The clear answer about the sluggish running game is "all of the above." Substandard line play, a running back suited to running from the shotgun, loss of a proper lead full back, and an offense that barely recognizes the run game. It isn't that Green is 'impatient' it's that he's not so talented at making the proper "reads" in the tight box (modern commentators call it 'reads' while us older, senile guys call it 'cuts' Oh, and we call it senility while the moderns call it 'dementia'). Peterson and Benson both have 'patience' but what they really both have that is a special skill, is the instinctive ability to recognize the proper hole and hit that thing hard and quick. You moderns keep your clever comments to yourself about that last sentence, willya?

[Lurker64]

Also, maybe Starks should be 1st and 2nd down, with Green 3rd down.

The problem is that Starks is almost completely worthless if you're not handing him the ball, as he neither blocks nor catches particularly well.

Green, at least, can catch the ball and is a willing blocker in blitz pickup.

[rbaloha1]

IMO the lack of a rushing game is a combination of the line getting beat and Green missing the open running lanes.

Lang and Saturday are getting beat consistently.

During college Green was running from a one back set in the run and shoot against bad defenses. Generally defenses were more concerned with NFL receivers. This allowed Green to run in enormous gaps. The big runs occurred without reading defender's movements along with superior downfield blocking.

Agree with the beat writer and poster that Green could just be a third round back which was the original thinking. Starks is clearly a better runner.