The Runningback Situation

[Packnut]

RB's

Henderson going down sucks big-time. Throwing to the FB isimportant in the pure WC offense cause more times than not, he's un-accounted for by the defense.

Our options are few due to the fact "stone hands" could'nt catch a cold. Might have to pick up a FB after the cuts and keep one less RB to make room. I know most everyone loves Gado but the truth is he did'nt pound the ball and pick up 3-4 yds a pop. He broke off some big runs which padded the stats a bit and he got the big runs cause every defense was playing pass against us. It's no secret he's not made for this scheme so he's odd man out. Herron has promise but I'm not sold.

As for those advocating getting rid of Davenport, need I remind you about Green's asthma? He does come out a lot because of it and after watching last nights game, Davenport was impressive on a few power runs moving the defense by himself. Gado and Herron can't do that. Gotta keep him and hope he stays healthy. Stick Gado on the practice squad just in case.

It's pretty clear watching Davenport over the last few years that he is more talented than Gado or herron and you can't let the "he might get hurt again" theory factor into it.

[woodbuck27]

HB:
Samkon Gado
Arliss Beach
Noah Herron
Ahman Green
Najeh Davenport


They will only keep two fullbacks so most likely only three from above will be with us.

Green, one would think, is a lock.

Then there is Davenport, Gado, Herron, and Beach


The only one above with any value in a deal is Davenport (one would think he'd draw a 5-7th round pick).

If they do not make a deal, Davenport will make the team.

So then we have two from Gado, Herron, and Beach.

To me, Herron is dependable, but average with little upside. He is gone.

Then it's a tough call between Gado and Beach.

Beach is looking too good in the preseason while Gado struggles to excel in this offense.

If you'd ask me today, I'd say we keep Green, Da Crapper, and Beach.

But if they can get some value for Da Crapper the smartest thing IMO would be to trade him for a draft pick or depth at a position of weakness.


B

Hey B. You just cut OUR HERO from 2005, Samkon Gado

GIANT BALLS !!

I just made up my mind.

Vonta Leach is now my option FB on passing downs because of OUR need for him as a blocker he gets tons of work on running plays as well.. It's all about protection of Brett Favre.

Trade Davenport for something soon. He only clouds the picture.

Noah Herron moves into a utility role. He's spotted at FB and an option at RB (if one of three RB's fall to injury in a game).

Samkon Gado and Arliss Beach? I sink or swim with these two players. This is the immediate direction for 2006 and then I assess the RB position for 2007.

RB's A. Green at #1 RB till he can't stand.

Gado and Beach fight it out for the right to be #2 RB and the other is #3 RB.

Davenport has value as a kick returner but he's otherwise not dependable.TRADE him Ted !!

RB
Green
Gado (#2 or #3 RB)
Beach ...... ditto......

FB
Leach
Herron (option FB/RB)

GO PACKERS !! FAITH in 2006 !!

[Bretsky]

Well, I do think we need to see Gado and Beach more in the preseason.
Herron just looks consistently below average. I'm wondering why Beach never excelled in college. Neither did Gado; some think that's because he was in the wrong system. But we are in that system now. Time will tell.

B

[Deputy Nutz]

I personally thnk that Davenport is getting a bad rap. He is coming off a very serious leg injury where most thought he wouldn't be available until the middle of training camp. Hopefully his conditioning keeps improving and also his speed. He has surely lost a step, hopefully he can regain it. Lets also face the facts that he didn't have very much room to run through. Holes were small and filled quickly. The nice thing about Davenport is that he creates yards with his physical running style.

I would be more willing to part with Davenport if the offfensive line was coming together, and demonstrating a little more consistently. Green can also gains yards by his punishing running style, the difference is that Davenport holds on to the football. Green is going to help this offense, but he still has never proven capable of holding on to the football, and with defenders coming free from shakey line play expect a couple of more fumbles out of Green.

I guess that the Packers are going to keep Green, Davenport, Gado at halfback, and then Henderson, and Leach at fullback. Beach and Herron can hopefully be placed on the practice squad. In reality, thats what Beach and Herron are practice squad players.

[RashanGary]

Once Pooper gets steam, he's hard to stop. This zone scheme from what I've seen requires a sudden burst through quick opening and equally quickly closing holes. Green is likely going to fit in perfectly. I don't think Davenport fits the scheme too well. He's a great guy if you have gaping holes. He's big, he keeps gaining steam and once he gets going, he's no fun to bring down. He fit great when Shermans dominating lines were plowing the holes. Anyone would have. I think Green, Herron and Beach are better suited to burst through quick holes and there for better suited for this offense.

Gado seems to be playing like crap. He's a beast when it comes to his size/speed but when it comes to this offense, he just seems to studder and run into lineman. We'll see how it pans out. I guess I thought Herron and Beach have been more effective than Pooper and Gado.

[woodbuck27]

Well, I do think we need to see Gado and Beach more in the preseason.
Herron just looks consistently below average. I'm wondering why Beach never excelled in college. Neither did Gado; some think that's because he was in the wrong system. But we are in that system now. Time will tell.

B

How disappointed are you in Najeh Davenport?

B. He looks so dam powerful and sometimes I'm smacking my lips and it never gets there.He had one very huge game for us and that was back in 2003 I was thinking? He's really decent on kickoffs. So he's handled one a game.

Isn't it time to just let go of the likes of him and David Martin? I'm lumping Rod Gardner in there as well. What a disapppointment he's turning out to be. Boerigter is history.

He's all " this is great to be in Green Bay and with Brett Favre " and he just drops it. . . .He's like a guest at dinner that won't start farting.

ALL three of these guys are stinking up the joint.

[HarveyWallbangers]

the difference is that Davenport holds on to the football.

That's conventional wisdom, but also false.

Davenport has 6 fumbles in 234 career touches (1 fumble every 39 touches)
Green has 31 fumbles in 1909 career touches (1 fumble every 62 touches)

Green always fumbles early in the year before going 9-10 games in a row at the end without fumble. Da Poop has been very fumble prone considering his limited touches.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hard for me to judge Gado. He looked decent in the scrimmage, but only got 3 carries in the two preseason games. I agree about Da Poop not fitting the scheme. When healthy, he's a lot like T.J. Duckett.

[Bretsky]

Well, I do think we need to see Gado and Beach more in the preseason.
Herron just looks consistently below average. I'm wondering why Beach never excelled in college. Neither did Gado; some think that's because he was in the wrong system. But we are in that system now. Time will tell.

B

How disappointed are you in Najeh Davenport?

B. He looks so dam powerful and sometimes I'm smacking my lips and it never gets there.He had one very huge game for us and that was back in 2003 I was thinking? He's really decent on kickoffs. So he's handled one a game.

Isn't it time to just let go of the likes of him and David Martin? I'm lumping Rod Gardner in there as well. What a disapppointment he's turning out to be. Boerigter is history.

He's all " this is great to be in Green Bay and with Brett Favre " and he just drops it. . . .He's like a guest at dinner that won't start farting.

ALL three of these guys are stinking up the joint.

The Crapper has had some nice games for us; he's a very capable Running Back IMO when he's healthy. If they love the younger guys he is the one guy who might have value in the trade market. Rod Gardner has been disappointing up to this point; really thought he'd come in and make a difference. I do think the talent is there; just wondering where the head is.

[BobDobbs]

First off I think that it's important to note that we look better at the Running Back spot than I thought we would considering all the injuries coming in. That said, we have so many question marks there and on the line that I would be surprised if our running game is a strength this year.

At fullback we will just have to make due. I know the Jags and McCarthy want to be able to throw to the fullback, but if you can't lead block you can't play that position. In my mind no one unseats Henderson or Leach. If Hendo ends up on the PUP list for the first six games you have to keep someone else for that time. That scenario is doubtful though.

At running back it is all about vision. Some of you may remember slo-mo footage of Barry Sanders with his eyes sweeping back and forth. Green is the only back on our roster with NFL starter vision. I don't think it can be taught. I think seeing the field and instantly understanding where to go is a natural ability.

Green has(had?) vision, speed, and finishing power. Also, he's and excellent receiver out of the backfield and picks up blitzes beautifully, so he's our third down back and an upgrade over Fish from last year. If he's running well within the first month we might just have a running game.

Gado has no vision. I noticed this last year. He may end up being a productive player within a scheme like Sherman's where the hole is picked when the coach calls the play. He has enough speed to break a long run and strength to break an arm tackle. I hope he has a good career. It won't be within a zone blocking system.

Najeh has been a very good backup runner who has been injured too often. He has also, been our best kick returner since Rossum amongst a very poor crop. I'm not sure why it is assumed that Najeh can back up at fullback, because he never really has played the position in the NFL, but let's assume that he can. I say keep him.

I haven't been able to see Beach play I hope that he can beat out Gado, but this might be a practice squad year for him. Running back is a position that young guys can make an immediate impact, though.

Herron is just too slow. He's solid, but how do you keep a guy that won't break off a big run for you?

So, you begin the season with Green starting, Najeh, and Beach(?) backing up. Hendo is the nominal starter, but is injured. Leach starts against the Bears and Najeh is the emergency fullback.

If you can find some one who can block and catch dump Leach. If you can, get a 6th for Gado(he did score a bunch of TDs last year).

[the_idle_threat]

Welcome to the forum, Bob!

That analysis is well thought out and well written, but I hope you are wrong in one respect: I really want to see somebody take Davenpoop's job. The guy's strength is also his weakness: he hits defenders like a ton of bricks and is hard to stop ... but this upright, non-elusive running style gets him hurt and puts him on the sideline. No matter how good a player is, he can't help his team spending the latter part of every season standing around in street clothes. (Incidentally, this last point is my argument against "running" quarterbacks.)

On Saturday, Davenpoop also showed some of that lack of vision that Gado suffers from ... it appeared to me that he kept running into his blockers rather than into a hole. Perhaps it was partly the fault of the blocking, but when Beach came in later, he didn't seem to have the same problem.

It might not be Gado who takes Davenpoop's job---I do think your assessment of Gado's vision (or lack thereof) is right on---but it could be Beach, or Brown, or some shlub we pick up in a late trade.

If we go into the season with Davenpoop as the top backup, we'd better have contingency plans for late in the season when a roster spot opens up. Rather than go though that hassle, we're better off just pinching him off now.

[MuttnJeff]

Green is kept because he is the best Packer back of last 30 years, and maybe he hasn't lost it.

Beach could be a real talent, he has some burst. Forget talk of practice squad, some other team would sign him off PS. A rebuilding team like GB needs to invest roster spot in young player like Beach.

So that leaves Davenport, Gado and Herron fighting for 1 job. Davenport has talent, has made some impressive runs in his 3 years. But as everybody points out, he is a big target who gets hit and injured a lot. He also is no Gale Sayers, he had a lot of crappy runs too, gets caught behind line of scrimmage. He reportedly is not much of a blocker. He looks really awkward trying to catch a pass. Overall, Davenport is a dime-a-dozen, marginal NFL player.

Herron isn't fast, but coaches are looking at a lot of factors for the third back - blocking, special teams. Gado was the most productive back last season,showing better than Davenport & Green.

The competition between Davenport, Gado and Herron is a toss-up. I guess Gado sticks, but it could be any of them. And no need to shed tears over the two guys who leave, they are borderline players.

[Deputy Nutz]

the difference is that Davenport holds on to the football.

That's conventional wisdom, but also false.

Davenport has 6 fumbles in 234 career touches (1 fumble every 39 touches)
Green has 31 fumbles in 1909 career touches (1 fumble every 62 touches)

Green always fumbles early in the year before going 9-10 games in a row at the end without fumble. Da Poop has been very fumble prone considering his limited touches.

Your right the stats show a different story, but Green is a starter and has never solved the problem. With almost 2000 carries he still fumbles the ball every other game. Davenport has just over 1 fumble a year while with Green Bay. Although it is difficult to fumble the ball when your not playing.

[woodbuck27]

" Beach and Herron can hopefully be placed on the practice squad. In reality, thats what Beach and Herron are practice squad players." Deputy Nutz

Today we are well aware of the loss of FB William Henderson, for at least the first month of the season (by report only). It may be more serious and his age is a factor in a recovery.

Will you agree that we have serious concerns at RB and running the ball?

Support for that as a fact Deputy Nutz:

** Our inexperienced OL and the question's surrounding players coming off injury and adapting to the ZBS and what OUR RB history has taught us.

** Where will Ahman Green really be? Yes he fumbles the ball till he gets game experience.

** Is Gado ever going to respond to the ZBS, and get up to speed as he did last season. He's by last report not game ready and on the mend as well. He'll play soon we trust.

** I like Najeh Davenport, but he's never stayed healthy and he's a straight ahead runner (yes) but with POWER. His value as a kick returner is a feather in his cap.

** Noah Herron is young and inexperienced, as is Arliss Beach, but they fit OUR future. Place them both on the PS, and someone may grab one or both of them. Why not install the best of these two RB's on the Roster?

With all these questions it's obvious to me, that today. Only two RB's are on OUR 53 man Roster.

I feel strongly. Ahman Green's a LOCK (today) and due to his needs at blocking (and protecting Brett Favre) so is Vonta Leach.

The next two preseason games have to clear the picture at RB/FB.

Maybe, it's seriously time to make a trade involving Najeh Davenport or Gado (but TT needs to se more of Samkon Gado, so the first trade option is to me,Najeh Davenport,. . .

get anything for him for us ASAP, or package him, to get a ready made value player that can start on the OL or certainly backup Ahman Green at RB, or give us another valued WR.

GO with or committ to either/or both Herron (possible FB) and Beach (RB), after testing both in the next game with "the Bengals" and again with "the Titans" ?

We need to try to make a trade this week, but certainly before TC Deputy Nutz. Package players for a starter, or value backup.

Clear the RB/FB picture by dealing Davenport and/or Samkon Gado. I hate personally, to see Samkon Gado go, but something more is needed on OUR team for 2006.

I'm getting it, that this season is not important as far as success. If that is real?

That makes it difficult for me to suggest a specific move for us as a Packer fan. I want us to do well in 2006. We need more for that to be a reality.

Ted Thompson trumps me. The lowly fan.

GO PACKERS ! FAITH FOR 2006 !!

[BooHoo]

If Davenport plays extensively at the beginning of the season, he might not be around at the end because injuries. Samkon filled in well last year when we played revolving RB. So I think Gado is a lock and well as Green. Trade Davenport. Keep one of the other two RBs. Also, is there a TE who can catch on the team who could backfill as fullaback when needed behind Leach. Just a thought!