BRADY HATERS

[Terry]

Terry, bulldog was actually referring to Bretsky about keeping his composure.

Oh, whoops! Thanks for that. Hell, I didn't even know Bretsky was a quarterback.

As a general comment on this thread, I don't know why Favre defenders keep conceding that he played like shit last year (Favre, not Bretsky). Actually, if you look at the first third of the season, Brett probably played as well as he has since 1997. With all the losing, he probably just got frantic. Who knows? The only thing that all those interceptions shows me is that Brett might really have been sincere all this time, in all those comments he's made about not caring for records.

Too much is made out of the interceptions.

Does everyone think that Paul Newman is at least a pretty good actor? I sure do - and better than 'pretty good'. Yet, I've seen at least one performance from Newman that was one of the most embarrassing and amateurish efforts at acting that I've ever seen from a pro. So what?

[RIPackerFan]

I have had the Brady-Favre discussion way too many times here in NE.

Right now, the Patriots are a team in transition, very similar to the Packers after the Superbowl wins. Their coaching staff is getting poached, the players are getting poached, and it is getting harder and harder to get the players they want (since all of their former coaches are implementing the same scheme).

So we are lucky – we will get to see how Brady does as the talent around him crumbles. I have a feeling that Belicheck will be gone in a few years – so we will see how Brady does without the perceived “best” coach in the league.

At that time, in about 6 years, we can make a comparison. Until then, trying to compare them both is near impossible, because of the stages both are in their careers – as you can see in this thread, both sides take different parts of each of their careers and use it to their advantage. Until you can look at their entire body of work will you be able to judge them both.

In a sense, Favre is lucky since the hard work is done. While having a bad year last year, he has consistently been one of the better QBs in the league since he has been playing (14 yrs I think). That is a significant accomplishment and one that it nearly impossible to duplicate. He has numerous records, the respect of the entire league, and the love of the fans.

Brady has rings and five good years. However, until he has a little more under his belt – you can’t really compare overall greatness.

Think about it – in 20 yrs, when both players have been retired for 10 – 15 yrs, if Brady does not win another Superbowl or put up any stats of significance, do you really think that people will think that Brady is better than Favre? While Favre had a bad year last year, that will be forgotten (like Emmit’s years in AZ or Deion’s years in Baltimore). Then all people will have is some highlight plays (which Favre certainly has more of) and stats (which Favre will have more of – and be the leader of). The INTs stat will go down like Babe Ruth’s strike out statistics – showing Favre’s willingness to take chances to get the “home run”, which eventually will be seen as slightly positive.

Brady has the chance to be better than Favre – all-time, but a lot more time and excellent play needs to take place by Brady before we even start comparing the two.

[jack's smirking revenge]

So if Favre breaks all the records, including INTs, that one stat takes him out of consideration for top all time qb? You would just throw out the fact that he is the only 3 time NFL MVP? Forgot the fact that he set all the other records because of one bad record?

Seriously, bulldog, who are your top 5 all time qbs? I'd be interested in yours too jack.

For the record, mine in no specific order: Favre, Marino, Elway, Montana and Unitas.

Well, first of all, I don't believe that you can have an "ACTIVE" QB in an "all-time" ranking. As Harvey suggested, you have to look at the culmination of a full career to determine who an "all-time" great is. Thus, Favre can't be on that list yet. Other than the start record, list to me what records he has broken thus far in his career....(and, no, you can't play the "he'll have this record in 2006 card")...

Here's my top5 list of all-time greats...

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Marino (he has to be because he holds the key records)
4. Unitas
5. Young

Upon retirement, and unless he totally implodes and embarasses himself before he retires, Favre makes this list.

This list could easily be expanded to include Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Troy Aikman, Joe Namath and even Terry Bradshaw.

tyler

[HarveyWallbangers]

Other than the start record, list to me what records he has broken thus far in his career....(and, no, you can't play the "he'll have this record in 2006 card")...

Right now, he has a lot of records like most consecutive 3000 yard seasons, most 30 TD seasons, most MVPs, etc. He doesn't have the career marks, but even if he doesn't get Marino's records, he'll be second in TDs, second in yards, second in completions, and at least third in total wins. He'll also have 12 winning seasons to hang his hat on (in his first 13 years)--with one 8-8 season in 1999 and one (or possibly two) losing records at the end of his career. I think he ranks 3rd or 4th in comeback wins with 35, and he has the second best home winning percentage in history (behind Terry Bradshaw)

[b bulldog]

1. Otto Graham
2. Joe Montana
3. John Unitas
4. John Elway
5. Sammy Baugh
6. Dan Marino
7. Terry Bradshaw
8. Brett Favre
9. Sid Luckman
10. Peyton Manning

These atre my top 10 QB'S.

[b bulldog]

Top 10 RB's
1.Jim Brown
2. Barry Sanders
3. Walter Payton
4. Gale Sayers
5. Eric Dickerson
6. OJ Simpson
7 Marion Motley
8. Emmit Smith
9. Bo Jackson(speculation)OR Franco Harris
10. Earl Campbell

[b bulldog]

Top 5 DB's
1. Herb Adderly
2. Deion Sanders
3. Ronnie Lott
4. Mel Blount
5. Willie Brown

[b bulldog]

Top 5 LB's
1. Dick Butkus
2. Lawrence Taylor
3. Ray Nitscke
4. Jack Lambert
5. Willie Lanier

[b bulldog]

Top 5 DL
1. Reggie White
2. Deacon Jones
3. Joe Green
4. Bob Lilly
5. Merlin Olsen

[b bulldog]

Top 5 OL
1. Forrest Gregg
2. Anthoney Munoz
3. John Hannah
4. Gene Upshaw
5. Roosevelt Brown
1. Mike Webster

[b bulldog]

Top 10 WR'S
1. Don Hutson
2. Jerry Rice
3. Ray Berry
4. Kellen Winslow
5. Steve Largent
6. John Mackey
7. Mike Ditka
8. Elroy Hirsch
9. Lynn Swann
10. Cris Carter or Michael Irv in

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good lists, bulldog. I agree with a lot of them.

[b bulldog]

I guess I am a homer, I had four Packers number one.

[Bretsky]

1. Otto Graham
2. Joe Montana
3. John Unitas
4. John Elway
5. Sammy Baugh
6. Dan Marino
7. Terry Bradshaw
8. Brett Favre
9. Sid Luckman
10. Peyton Manning

These atre my top 10 QB'S.

You must be old if you've seen enough of some of those QB's to include them in top 10

[b bulldog]

I love to read WW2 books and the NFL's old timers books. With all the changing in the O, it's very difficult to compare era to era but some of thses playerfs were way ahead of their time.