THE draft thread (2013 version)

[Bretsky]

In all years past we had day 1, day 2, and day 3 draft day threads....so the question begs....how many did Red have to blow to keep everything in this thread......lol

[woodbuck27]

This guy says TT had a good draft: http://www.packers.com/news-and-even...5-2bbad67afa3c

It's getting better every day with me now that that Trade Transaction Value Issue is coming 'to light'.

I wasn't aware of all these other charts. TT actually handled the San Fran Transactions extremely well based on the new chart I used in analysis. The one it sure appears now that the Packers and San Fran used last Friday evening.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

OK, Woody, we're cool and all.

The draft charts are a tool and are a part of any trade involving picks, but not the end all be all judge of the deal.

Let's take a nuetral example.

The Browns got a whole village of high picks to make the Julio Jones deal a couple years ago. 2 #1's and other great picks, 5 in all. That draft pick value's were all in Cleve's favor, but after this year's draft that deal is definitely in favor of The Birds and Julio Jones. Becuase ATL wanted that guy, Julio Jones to pair with Roddy White. Cleve? they were lead by GM washout (Pres at the time) Mikey Homgren. New Brown GM Mike Lombardi spent this draft trying to forge together a future for Cleveland after Holmgren's fuck-up. The charts show the Brownies "won" but the results were that Cleveland screwed it up.

Those charts are just numbers. The whole thing changes when the numbers start to become the actual players. TT stated that the charts are just a bunch of numbers & he's freakin' right.

Woody I got on your ass because you were critiquing TT & the GBP's draft based on draft charts. Not only that, the values you were all worried about were negligable. SF skinned the Pack because was a 9 point difference under the old JJchart? That's bullshit. Nobody got taken OR got over one way or the other.

Now is the time to strap it up and get playing. We'll see a little during OTA's and a lot more when camp and the Pre starts.

TT picked 11 guys. Their play will figure out what deal was good and what was bad, not charts, tables, or any calculations.

I don't know if the draft was good or bad yet.

I am still puzzle about the 3rd rnd hole, but maybe the 3 4th rnd boys will cover
Thompson on that one.

The time to find out is nearing.

That getting on my ass doesn't bother me. I respect you KY. You surely know that. I'll admit my confusion based on all I knew. When I don't agree with something. 'NO HELL' can shake me off trying to get to the bottom of it.

I looked at the LINKS to the New Trade Value Charts that Patler posted sometime last night. I spotted one that looked good to go and analyzed the Packer >>>San Fran 49ers transactions this morning >>> and BINGO!

I've been very busy on all this stuff. I'm yet to study the info. that 3irty1 posted on this thread. I'll get to all of that including all that Patler posted. I've been busy trying to sort this all out inside of myself. I'm still not there >>> but closer.

I'm still seeing Wist43's argument. I see things that really bother me too.

The bottom line >>> the boat will come out of the fog.

Problem solved.... not there totally >>> but working on that.

I'm a realist and TT did the best he could. His intentions are solid and I believe he's a decent man.

PACKERS!

[Upnorth]

Franklin has some potential

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfcnorth&id=56057

With our line yac is important

[pbmax]

In all years past we had day 1, day 2, and day 3 draft day threads....so the question begs....how many did Red have to blow to keep everything in this thread......lol

Killjoy!

[MJZiggy]

my hair is better then kipers

Oh really!?

[mission]

I think Red owes Woody a big thanks

[Old School]

Congrats, Red! Looking past the quantity tho, it was the quality that made following this year's draft enjoyable and informative for me. I start this Packer season with a much clearer picture of where the Packers are working from. While I don't obsess over every little controversial issue, I do like to think I have an idea of what's going on. Thanks to all, I think this year I have a leg up.

[Fritz]

Red, you're a crazy funny mofo. I don't agree with about half your football posts, but there doesn't seem to be any malice or anything, so it's all good.

The Favre thread is like a cluster of cancer cells gone wild. It is what it is.

This one, however, often had some good football discussion.

[woodbuck27]

Jaysus KY...This is a tad like I imagine waterboarding must be like.

Do I have to face the fricken inquisition here at Packerrats. The Packerrats 'Secret Society For All Things Are Wonderful With Ted Thompson'?

If so screw it. I'd rather reside on an ice paddy in the Arctic. Eating baby whale blubber and drinking seal oil.

Do you still not realize why I was where I was last Saturday evening? What was revealed to me here at Packerrats that saved me from 'that place'?

This is Fr. your post to me above. I didn't see the impact of it in terms of the negative 'on me' until today.

" Woody I got on your ass because you were critiquing TT & the GBP's draft based on draft charts. Not only that, the values you were all worried about were negligable. SF skinned the Pack because was a 9 point difference under the old JJchart? That's bullshit. Nobody got taken OR got over one way or the other." KYPack

Wow KY ! Your burnin' my ass here !

The Math's (arithmetic) is simple. I don't get worked up over 'negligible'. It didn't look 'negligible'... last Friday, KY. I'll go through this again 'in case' you missed it in a previous post. I always try to back myself up. To support any position. I didn't pull this whole thing out of a hat.

In review:

It 'just simply' looked bad on the Green Bay Packers as I analyzed his first and second trades with San Fran 49ers.

Just like it looked worse on the Dallas Cowboys in their Rd. 1 transaction with San Fran. Exchanging Picks #18 and #31. This I discoverd doing research looking for answers. It's not like I can tap you on the shoulder or call you up on the telephone and ask... " What in hell is going on."


I'll go over this again. Specifically in terms as I saw it in this draft.

Armed with **all I was aware of, in terms of TT's transactions with the San Fran 49ers. I'll confine this to Packer >>><<<San Fran 49ers transactions last Friday evening in Rd. 2 and Rd. 3.

**The Standard and still accepted today JJ Trade Value Chart according to publications. This chart>>> certainly is still used. I posted much evidence of that as a fact. Several draft sites 'only' reference the JJ Trade value Chart as I posted before.

I'll go so far as to assure you KY. I believe that I'm NOT the 'only' member of Packerrats that wasn't aware of these other 'NEW'... Trade Value Charts.

The charts that are being posted at Packerrats this week and /or articles of such. ie By Patler and 3irty1.

Before this week this was 'the Gospel and Draft Transactions' in my world and on every Draft Site I've used:

The 'so called' ... 'Jimmy Johnson inspired' ... Trade Value Chart.

That TVC is prominant on severaly Internet draft sites. I thought that I posted LINK's to you KY.

I've come full circle all the way to Ted Thompson and this. I posted my calculation on a Patler supplied TVC that proves that TT did it bang on.

TT was bang on. TT got it right. TT's 'the man'.

KY ... We're on the same side here.

I'll do it again..... Here's the JJ TVC

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

As I used the JJ Chart and looked at the transactions. Not having any knowledge of any other charts. The trading loss for us wasn't small. It was rather significant.

The total difference's before compensation:

Transaction 1: Rd. 2 Exchange of Picks #55 and #61>>> 58 Points

Transaction 2: Rd. 3 Exchange of Picks #88 and #93 >>> 22 Points

Total = 80 Pts ... Minus the compensations:

Transaction 1: Rd. 6 Pick #173 = 22.2 Points

Transaction 2: Rd. 7 Pick #216 = 5.0 Points

80 - 27.2 points = 52.8 Points >>>Trade Value Loss >>> or Approx. ** Rd. 4 Pick 121

The total loss for the Green Bay Packers in transactions with San Fran 49ers using the JJ TVC:

Would have certainly been significant. That would have been something like a potential Josh Sitton. He was drafted by Ted Thompson in the 2008 Draft at Round 4 Pick #135.

In this draft Rd. 4 Pick #121 was used by the Indy Colts to pick Center Khaled Holmes Fr, USC.

I'm pretty sure that the Colts are hoping for a significant contribution from this prospect.

That's exactly why I was annoid KY. Using all I had to make a calculation it appeared clearly that TT was getting whipped. Whipped by the Green Bay Packers 'Team to Beat'. The San Fran 49ers.

I have to defend myself here KY. Did you expect less of me? I never imagined I'd have to do this in regards to you. That you'd call me out.

WOW.

GO PACK GO !

[KYPack]

Woody, you were concillatory last nite and got all fired up again this am., eh?

I was only calling you out because you were using incorrect data. Others did too. If you look back in this thread, Ras was trying to tell you the JJ chart that's on the net is like the ol' one hoss shay. A great thing once that is now in the past.

You were criticizing a guy who is the master of his board and a great manipulator of the draft. TT turned his allotment of picks into 11 selections, some of whom should really help the club win.

But....

You could turn out to be right, for some wrong reasons.

This shapes up to be a great draft for the GBP, but there are many storm clouds on the horizon.

Jones looks good, but is NOT a sure thing. As good as his measurables are, he has a lot of tweener tendenacies. He's a small 5 tech and OLB cover may not be in his skill set, yet. I hope he surprises us, but a sure thing, he ain't.

The two backs are highly rated in any pre-draft breakdowns, but they both have ?'s hanging over 'em.

Lacy appears to be the complete package, but he is a plodder. And he plodded behind the best line in the country in college. At his best, he reminds me of Marshawn Lynch, but could turn out to be another Marion Barber.

Franklyn appears to also have a ton of upside. But he is smaller and has trouble breaking tackles at the line. You need to get him in space, where he creates problems. At his max upside, he reminds me of Marshall Faulk. But he could be another BJack.

And so it goes thru our whole draft, some good college talent, but there are chinks in every one of 'em's armour.

Don't worry about those value charts anyway. They are mainly a sales tool once the draft gets rolling. Teams use 'em to convince other teams to trade picks with their team.

It's the players that are the focus. All the other shit is strictly voodoo.

I have no beef with you.

If you got problems with me, I'll be right here going over the racing form for my Derby picks.

Maybe you got a value chart or two that can help me make some good ones.

[woodbuck27]

Woody, you were concillatory last nite and got all fired up again this am., eh?

I was only calling you out because you were using incorrect data. Others did too. If you look back in this thread, Ras was trying to tell you the JJ chart that's on the net is like the ol' one hoss shay. A great thing once that is now in the past.

You were criticizing a guy who is the master of his board and a great manipulator of the draft. TT turned his allotment of picks into 11 selections, some of whom should really help the club win.

But....

You could turn out to be right, for some wrong reasons.

This shapes up to be a great draft for the GBP, but there are many storm clouds on the horizon.

Jones looks good, but is NOT a sure thing. As good as his measurables are, he has a lot of tweener tendenacies. He's a small 5 tech and OLB cover may not be in his skill set, yet. I hope he surprises us, but a sure thing, he ain't.

The two backs are highly rated in any pre-draft breakdowns, but they both have ?'s hanging over 'em.

Lacy appears to be the complete package, but he is a plodder. And he plodded behind the best line in the country in college. At his best, he reminds me of Marshawn Lynch, but could turn out to be another Marion Barber.

Franklyn appears to also have a ton of upside. But he is smaller and has trouble breaking tackles at the line. You need to get him in space, where he creates problems. At his max upside, he reminds me of Marshall Faulk. But he could be another BJack.

And so it goes thru our whole draft, some good college talent, but there are chinks in every one of 'em's armour.

Don't worry about those value charts anyway. They are mainly a sales tool once the draft gets rolling. Teams use 'em to convince other teams to trade picks with their team.

It's the players that are the focus. All the other shit is strictly voodoo.

I have no beef with you.

If you got problems with me, I'll be right here going over the racing form for my Derby picks.

Maybe you got a value chart or two that can help [I]me make some good ones.

KY I respect you and I'm going to tell you right up what I must do over this crap.

Frankly it's got to so bad this off season>>> that it's just simply sad.

I never imagined I would act in accordance with 'blind sheep'.

I'm just going to be like Wist43 has to be for the sake of health. Sit back and watch it all fall apart.

TT has gotten beaten up so badly in this 'off season' or stagnated to such a high degree that the Green Bay Packers will be a decade in recovery.

This isn't in any manner got anything to do with Draft Transactions and Trade Value Charts.

This whole fricken thing is a mess.

There...I finally said it.

I can no longer lie to myself. I can no longer deny 'my shock'.

Jermichael Finley and $8.25 million$ CAP hit this season.

Clay Matthews and an average of $13 million$

Aaron Rodgers and an average of $22 million$ $40 million$ in his pockets over the course of this coming year. That's so pathetic.

Tramon Williams and a $8.5 million$ CAP hit this season. Good grief.

No real Vet help in FA. They come in>>>they leave and nothing.

BJ Raji and rumors that he will be the next to cash in. Ohh Boy..why?

It's simply too much KY.

GO ....ohh sure. It's all so very very sad.

[wist43]

TT drafted some decent players, but there are problems. Just as there were problems with last years crop.

Last year TT drafted almost all defense, but each of the players wasn't a natural fit for what they were going to be asked to do. It was up to Capers to design fronts that took max advantage of their talent - Capers obviously did not do that.

I like Jones, but didn't want him b/c I didn't think he was big enough to hold up full time at DE. I like the idea of him inside on passing downs though, he has good burst and can create trouble - all depends on how Capers uses him. Capers has routinely misused Raji, so there's no reason to trust that he will do right by Jones.

I also like Lacy to whatever extent, but see the running game as being faulty b/c of 1) McCarthy's 3 running plays playbook, and 2) underpowered, poor run blocking offensive linemen. To me, the biggest problem with our lack of running game is the OL - which just got a major overhaul after last nights annoncement of musical chairs.

What really set me off about this draft was TT's trade down in the 3rd round. Instead of a tough run defender (6'1, 341 lbs Brandon Williams), TT traded back and picked the smallest OT in the draft. The Packers have a template for offensive linemen and that hasn't changed... that's disheartening.

I do see Lacy and Franklin as upgrades over Benson and Harris, but not enough to justify 2nd and 4th round picks when we have such obvious problems in other areas. The Packers are a passing team first and foremost, MM frequently misplaces his cheat sheet with the running plays on it, and the OL is underpowered and undergoing a major reshuffle - these picks are watered down b/c of all those other fractors. The persian guy and Tretter won't offer help anytime soon.

The one developmental guy I really like is Johnson. If the jump in competition doesn't rattle him, he's got some physical talent.

[Fritz]

TT drafted some decent players, but there are problems. Just as there were problems with last years crop.

Last year TT drafted almost all defense, but each of the players wasn't a natural fit for what they were going to be asked to do. It was up to Capers to design fronts that took max advantage of their talent - Capers obviously did not do that.

I like Jones, but didn't want him b/c I didn't think he was big enough to hold up full time at DE. I like the idea of him inside on passing downs though, he has good burst and can create trouble - all depends on how Capers uses him. Capers has routinely misused Raji, so there's no reason to trust that he will do right by Jones.

I also like Lacy to whatever extent, but see the running game as being faulty b/c of 1) McCarthy's 3 running plays playbook, and 2) underpowered, poor run blocking offensive linemen. To me, the biggest problem with our lack of running game is the OL - which just got a major overhaul after last nights annoncement of musical chairs.

What really set me off about this draft was TT's trade down in the 3rd round. Instead of a tough run defender (6'1, 341 lbs Brandon Williams), TT traded back and picked the smallest OT in the draft. The Packers have a template for offensive linemen and that hasn't changed... that's disheartening.

I do see Lacy and Franklin as upgrades over Benson and Harris, but not enough to justify 2nd and 4th round picks when we have such obvious problems in other areas. The Packers are a passing team first and foremost, MM frequently misplaces his cheat sheet with the running plays on it, and the OL is underpowered and undergoing a major reshuffle - these picks are watered down b/c of all those other fractors. The persian guy and Tretter won't offer help anytime soon.

The one developmental guy I really like is Johnson. If the jump in competition doesn't rattle him, he's got some physical talent.

It all comes down to whether or not you Trust in Ted. I too would have liked Brandon Williams as a nose tackle to hold that line, but I figure Ted knew who the guy was - knew scads more about him than you and I and his mama put together - and didn't think he'd help the team, at least no more than other guys would. So he traded down.

You see an orgnanization that has ill-fitting parts - Ted drafts odd-sized ducks whom Capers then does not know how to use; McCarthy and Thompson both like small offensive linemen who get pushed around.

I think Thompson is one of the top three GM's in the business, period. We just won't agree.

My hope is that another SB win in the next year or two will convince you that I am correct.

[woodbuck27]

Hi KY: I need to pay your last post some proper respect but first I need to get this off my chest:

Earlier today>>>I actually got to someplace I seldom go to>>>overwhelmed. I just needed a break >>> some rest. I'm going in two directions in my Green Bay Packer fanness. (-:

I 'm well aware of the efforts that TT and his crew made in regards to trying to return a running game to the Green Bay Packers. That's too obvious as a result of this draft. I've been hoping for such a focus myself as a Packer fan. I'm clearly on the record here as to that focus. Espwecially that and this draft after Ted Thompson wasn't able to land former RAM's RB Stephen Jackson>>>who's now an Atlanta Falcon.

Ohh... I write all this shit out because maybe some observer of Packerrats is reading the threads and isn't 'as clued in', as alot of the hardcore Packerrats.

I really try hard to dot my I's and cross my T's; inspite of that, sometimes fail. I'm a lowly human.

A Running Game and Packers:

I believed if TT employed such a strategy in this draft that would help to protect Aaron Rodgers. If it works out and MM actually uses it more consistently in games; or takes some necessary shine away from Aaron Rodgers. I hope it doesn't have to be $$$TOP MONEY$$$. All the records, press and glory.

I really wonder if that's possible?

I've posted this on one other thread after discovering it this AM while rummaging through the NET:

Ted Thomson and Crew had an excellent draft. I never just swollow news. I check it out myself. I'm an independent because with that I can be more sure of my positions. Try to contribute real good from that center.

If I get it down here maybe? ... just maybe? the fricken' label will come off of me. Hell I used the wrong Draft Trade Value Chart. That got me very concerned ... whoopi fricken' doo. What a flying fart shame. Tar and feather me. Catch me first >>>> then it's

I'm a die hard Green Bay Packer fan for such a long time. I've earned the fricken' right to be concerned and damn well act upset. I've arrived exactly there. I need to express myself as clearly as I may. It's not like I'm 'in reality', hurtin' anyone as in, an assult of physically dangerous proportions.

I'm all centered on 'Peace and Harmony'. Yet ... I hate to lose. I've always known how to compete.

If you feel the need to get all smartass with me ...whatever it takes...fill your fricken' boots. If a member wants to come up against me personally I've always held my own. I hate that crap... but whatever it has to be. Want to get it on...bring it on. I'll take care of business, as I've always been raised to do. I stand down for no man/woman on this forum or elsewhere. That's simply not in my nature.

I feel in Green Bay Packer History: We're certainly at a cross roads. We can go NORTH to SMART or .......... South to a cesspool of such crap that you'll all live what some did here 1970 to 1993.

I can smell it from here. I've been smelling it too stongly all off season. I've been smelling it; 'south', since the conclusion of the 2010 season Packer fans. Yup ... since our fourth Super Bowl. That too many of you seem to need to straddle wrap yur arms around and almost hump .... point too as an excuse against any smart simple argument that we're slipping as a team. Maybe 'even... 'just maybe' falling behind some other NFL teams as a reality is an out to lunch, blasphamy.

What a load of horseshit that 'fools brigade' stance is. The good news is that in the recent Power Poll I read we're in 6th place. Not too bad considering we ignored or failed at anything that might give us some relief.

We did get some relief in this draft in terms of the future hopefully but right now this season ...please get real.

http://www.nfluk.com/opinions/articles/neil-and-jeff%E2%80%99s-nfc-draft-grades

That Super Bowl in my books >>>near ancient history. All 'well and dandy' >>> a big in terms of now and tomorrow a clear >>> so what !!

Pay close attention to Wist43. I might be fricken' dead tomorrow.

That's exactly, in case you might need to know to understand; where Wist43 and I align. You want to put Wist43 down becaue of one simple concept. He scares the MFing crap out of you. That's your buried deep inside of 'you' ... FEAR ... Packer fan.

Wist43 is simply the voice of common sense and reason. Some of you are so sucked under by this 'in Ted I (we)TRUST baloney'; and may God bless your lovely hearts. That your blind to the sensable posting of anyone even marginally trying to warn you as Wist43 clearly does.

I'm not headed any time soon, too far South of the right way NORTH I refer to above. This doesn't have a tap to do with any history and Revolutionary War either.

My NORTH is correct>>>the Way.

South is the loser way.

I've always said:

If you can't run with the big dogs then stay the 'H' on the fricken' porch and stop your fricken useless yelpin'. Greater minds need to concentrate. If anyone wants a piece of me it will likely get mean and brown and green. I'm no less now then I've ever been. That's really very fricken decent in terms of my rights and humanity. Ohh hell >>>it's Spring ... LOL. I still don't need that horseshit.

What I've seen in this off season; what I truly know I see. I'm one of those last souls on earth that could be brainwashed. What I've been seeing, and believed I saw last week. Should have ...well... got me; really very concerned; or I'm not worth 'a shaker of salt', as a GREEN BAY PACKER FAN.

Everyone at Packerrats with 'an ounce to a pound's sense of a clue'. The membership here certainly knows that I've never been a member of the 'go with the flow Happy Gang'. I've seen it too often, that such, becomes the 'Fools Brigade'. Then it's also this in me:

I also promote to each his own. Pick your side people.

I'm going to warn you. I certainly know my side is to be favoured. Noone who has ever come to know me has ever come down on me and not grown to learn about my brains, heart and right on MFerrrs'... wisdom. I'm far far from being a fool unless the fat ass self proclaimed too often bullshit establishment can't deal standing up with me.

If you don't get it or like it...tough ! It can work for you or against you. You choose ... not me.

I reached the fricken' tipping point KY, earlier today. I mean this damn off season was over the top too much bullshit nothing really going down even decent pour moi. This Off Season was suckin' the wind >>>HARD!

Now again I posted this earlier today somewhere in this goldmine of knowledge and all things football.

http://www.nfluk.com/opinions/articles/neil-and-jeff%E2%80%99s-nfc-draft-grades

I take real JOY in that as I havn't had much to cheer for since we almost or saw the glare of the Lombardi Trophy last....a long time ago... in terms of where we need to get to be.

In Ted we TRUST>>> I'm not >>> never will be >>> a sheep. I'd never join such a club. I'm not never have been a joiner and never saw the need to be that. Somehow I generally managed to be 'the guy', the fricken' leader, the 'toughest ass MFerrr', anyone could come across and 'only' when it was necessary to be such. I've never lost that lead in my pencil. I still do what's necessary and that's always stand on my blessed integrity.

I wasn't raised to get sucked into such banal garbage/blind trust. I was raised by really decent people >>> grandparents, parents, relatives, solid friends that I chose and who chose me, acquaintences and mentors from all walks of life. I've had such blessings of a truly rich and multi-layered life. I was blessed with a strong heart. A when I need to use it. A mean assed spirit that was cultivated by mean ass'd MFerrrs, that I never stood down from. No matter what their reputation was. I'm through merely living in tough surroundings ..tough. I'm also gentle well sweet. I'm Irish.

Every word I'm writing is my TRUTH. Who I am >>>my rep and legacy as a human being. To respect the other side but standing strong on my own observations and feelings about what I do see.

Sorry for the shock fellow Packerrats. I will use 'the Democratic Process'; to stand for my God given right as my Fathers son. To be a conscientious observer/ sometimes objector. To align with common sense and good judgement >>> to be RIGHT.

Peace Out Packer fans

GO PACK GO!