McGinn..."Packers Too Soft for NFL Elite"

[mraynrand]

McGinn's article does what each of these headline grabbing articles is supposed to do, which is to make a huge catastrophe over, at most, 3 players.

The difference between this year and 2010 is Jolly, Jenkins and Collins.

And Woodson, big time. That versatility was amazing. I thought Woodson was done in the Superbowl and wouldn't come back, because it took everything he had just to stay with an elite WR, one last time. Two seasons later, the injury notwithstanding, he's just not the same guy - and I didn't expect him to be. The only thing he had left were instincts and the ability to tackle (see the Houston game). But his Pass rushing was huge in 2010. A lot of times he was the other guy 'opposite' Matthews that the defense had to account for. It will be interesting to see how they replace him; do they try to fit another player (Hayward?) to the "W" position, or do they replace him schematically, by actually having an OLB or ILB who can effectively rush the passer. They do need to have at least one more guy to pass rush. Most defenses can't survive with one pass rusher only.

[hoosier]

You guys, Nick Perry and Atari Bigby are bad examples.



They can't just be fast, tough and mean. They also have to be able to play football.

Then to find them you either have to be drafting early or get extremely lucky.

[mraynrand]

Then to find them you either have to be drafting early or get extremely lucky.

I'm not at the point yet where I think the Packers need a high draft pick to be competitive, but there is an argument to be made that having an off year can net you a blue chipper; we'll just ignore AJ Hawk for sake of this argument.

[pbmax]

And Woodson, big time. That versatility was amazing. I thought Woodson was done in the Superbowl and wouldn't come back, because it took everything he had just to stay with an elite WR, one last time. Two seasons later, the injury notwithstanding, he's just not the same guy - and I didn't expect him to be. The only thing he had left were instincts and the ability to tackle (see the Houston game). But his Pass rushing was huge in 2010. A lot of times he was the other guy 'opposite' Matthews that the defense had to account for. It will be interesting to see how they replace him; do they try to fit another player (Hayward?) to the "W" position, or do they replace him schematically, by actually having an OLB or ILB who can effectively rush the passer. They do need to have at least one more guy to pass rush. Most defenses can't survive with one pass rusher only.

First, thank to Joe for correcting my post re: Jolly versus Green.

As for Woodson, the reason I would not put him on this list is that his successor is likely on the roster. House seems to enjoy being physical and both Hayward and Shields are physical enough to be thoroughly competent. McMillan might be able to handle the slot/safety angle of the package.

But even if McMillan isn't an answer at safety, there is a good likelihood they will continue to look to replace Collins' skill set more than Woods given the position they specialized in.

[pbmax]

I'm not at the point yet where I think the Packers need a high draft pick to be competitive, but there is an argument to be made that having an off year can net you a blue chipper; we'll just ignore AJ Hawk for sake of this argument.

Or, like the 49ers, Buccaneers or Lions, just be terrible for a decade to collect talent.

[Joemailman]

I'm not at the point yet where I think the Packers need a high draft pick to be competitive, but there is an argument to be made that having an off year can net you a blue chipper; we'll just ignore AJ Hawk for sake of this argument.

2005: Aaron Rodgers (#24 )
2006: A.J. Hawk (#5 )
2007: Justin Harrell (#16)
2009: B. J. Raji (#9)
2009: Clay Matthews (#26)
2010: Bryan Bulaga (#23)
2011: Derek Sherrod (#32)
2012: Nick Perry (#28)

Ted drafts pretty well in the 20's. Packers have the 26th pick this year.

[mraynrand]

First, thank to Joe for correcting my post re: Jolly versus Green.

As for Woodson, the reason I would not put him on this list is that his successor is likely on the roster. House seems to enjoy being physical and both Hayward and Shields are physical enough to be thoroughly competent. McMillan might be able to handle the slot/safety angle of the package.

But even if McMillan isn't an answer at safety, there is a good likelihood they will continue to look to replace Collins' skill set more than Woods given the position they specialized in.

I'd have to say it'a about equal. They asked Collins to cover a lot of ground and tackle well, like sure-tackling Sharper or a rangier Butler. Woodson can't simply be replaced with a physical corner. Wood's peak years for the Packers were 2009 and then 2010, and the way he was utilized in the "W" role. My view is that they don't have a single guy on the roster that can play that role; what you seem to be arguing is that they can replace his skills effectively with a group of guys. I think that's probably true, but then you don't have that one guy that can do three things on the field: cover like a DB, tackle like an ILB/safety, pass rush like an OLB.

[mraynrand]

2005: Aaron Rodgers (#24 )
2006: A.J. Hawk (#5 )
2007: Justin Harrell (#16)
2009: B. J. Raji (#9)
2009: Clay Matthews (#26)
2010: Bryan Bulaga (#23)
2011: Derek Sherrod (#32)
2012: Nick Perry (#28)

Ted drafts pretty well in the 20's. Packers have the 26th pick this year.

This is why I'm not there yet. But honestly, the Packers need another blue chipper on defense, to replace Woodson and/or Collins. They essentially need another Rodgers/Matthews late first round steal. TT can do it!

[sharpe1027]

This is why I'm not there yet. But honestly, the Packers need another blue chipper on defense, to replace Woodson and/or Collins. They essentially need another Rodgers/Matthews late first round steal. TT can do it!

That would be ideal. They might night need a Rodgers level surprise. I think they can win if they can generate a consistent pass rush from somewhere other than Matthews, create a more consistent pocket for Rodgers and not be the most injured team in the NFL.

[pbmax]

I'd have to say it'a about equal. They asked Collins to cover a lot of ground and tackle well, like sure-tackling Sharper or a rangier Butler. Woodson can't simply be replaced with a physical corner. Wood's peak years for the Packers were 2009 and then 2010, and the way he was utilized in the "W" role. My view is that they don't have a single guy on the roster that can play that role; what you seem to be arguing is that they can replace his skills effectively with a group of guys. I think that's probably true, but then you don't have that one guy that can do three things on the field: cover like a DB, tackle like an ILB/safety, pass rush like an OLB.

Safety is a position where a blue chipper might pop up in the second round like Collins did, more often than a CB.

Woodson's unique skill set definitely will need to be replaced by more than one player, but unlike Polamalu and the Steelers, I think the D can adjust to not having one guy do it all. They demonstrated this for most of this season.

However, Collins role has not been replaced. And I think it will be easier to find one guy to be Collins than Woodson.

[sharpe1027]

Safety is a position where a blue chipper might pop up in the second round like Collins did, more often than a CB.

Woodson's unique skill set definitely will need to be replaced by more than one player, but unlike Polamalu and the Steelers, I think the D can adjust to not having one guy do it all. They demonstrated this for most of this season.

However, Collins role has not been replaced. And I think it will be easier to find one guy to be Collins than Woodson.

I would think that by losing the range of Collins, they lost more options than they did with the loss of Woodson. Woodson was the type of player that did his job and then made all sorts of plays above and beyond his duties. Without him, they lose some of the truly special plays, but the defense still probably had most all of the same options available.

[mraynrand]

And I think it will be easier to find one guy to be Collins than Woodson.

that's the part I wholeheartedly agree with.

[Pugger]

I always thought Cecil was terrible. He was the king of dive at receiver, miss tackle because you can't wrap up when traveling head first with feet in air.

I never cared for Cecil either.

[Pugger]

It will be very interesting to see how we handle Woodson this offseason. This is going to be a delicate situation. Here we have a sure fire HOF player who clearly is past his prime. How do you tell him to hang up his cleats without insulting the man if he feels he can still contribute?

[Joemailman]

It will be very interesting to see how we handle Woodson this offseason. This is going to be a delicate situation. Here we have a sure fire HOF player who clearly is past his prime. How do you tell him to hang up his cleats without insulting the man if he feels he can still contribute?

So the Packers might have to tell a future HOF player they don't want him back? What could possibly go wrong?