If the Ray Lewis situation with the stabbings happened now

[Patler]

If Ray Lewis' situation with the stabbings happened in the last few years, what punishment would Roger Goodell have handed out? Lewis was indicted for murder, but reached a plea deal for obstruction of justice in return for his testimony. He reached financial settlements with the families of the victims.

Apparently, Johnny Jolly has been banned for life for what he did and was involved in.
Should Lewis have gotten any less if it happened now?

[Jimx29]

im just sick to death of even hearing his name. glad today is finally here so it will go away

[Bretsky]

Don't you think Jolly is gone forever because he was nailed for multiple offenses. Maybe I don't remember, but wasn't this a one time occurance ?

With that being said, I think odds are Lewis would have received a half year to full year suspension right now

[Patler]

Don't you think Jolly is gone forever because he was nailed for multiple offenses. Maybe I don't remember, but wasn't this a one time occurance ?

With that being said, I think odds are Lewis would have received a half year to full year suspension right now

Jolly had multiple offenses involving a personal addiction.
Lewis' situation involved a double homicide.

Basically, Jolly was hurting himself. Whatever Lewis's involvement was, it was in regard to the murders of two young men. Not much of a comparison, in my opinion.

[Bretsky]

I doubt Lewis would have received a lifetime ban. A year....would not surprise me

[Patler]

I doubt Lewis would have received a lifetime ban. A year....would not surprise me

Probably not, because he is Ray Lewis.
No body seems to care about Johnny Jolly.
Kind of sad.

[Bretsky]

completely agree.....also sad for Jolly............so he was a junkee dealer........if rehabbed..............I'd like him to get another shot..plus...we could use him

[woodbuck27]

Jolly had multiple offenses involving a personal addiction.
Lewis' situation involved a double homicide.

Basically, Jolly was hurting himself. Whatever Lewis's involvement was, it was in regard to the murders of two young men. Not much of a comparison, in my opinion.

Damn.

Are you now 'judge and jury' in regards to Ray Lewis's life? How do you live with being so judgementle?

Was Ray Lewis ever convicted of any crime in that case? Yes or no?

Right....so where are you going with this nonsence?

[Joemailman]

Damn.

Are you now 'judge and jury' in regards to Ray Lewis's life? How do you live with being so judgementle?

Was Ray Lewis ever convicted of any crime in that case? Yes or no?

Right....so where are you going with this nonsence?

He pleaded guilty of obstruction of justice in a double homicide.

Only Lewis pleaded guilty in relation to the case: for obstruction of justice, a misdemeanor. He originally was charged with two counts of murder but struck a deal with prosecutors in exchange for his testimony against two of his companions that night, Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting.

Lewis never directly linked his two friends to the killings, and they were acquitted. Lewis had testified that Oakley, Sweeting and another man had gone to a sporting goods store the previous day to buy knives. Baker's blood later was found in Lewis' limo. Having fled the crime scene, Lewis told the limo's passengers to "keep their mouths shut." The white suit Lewis was wearing that night — on Super Bowl Sunday — never was found./

Lewis I believe turned his life around after this incident and became a better person. But it certainly appears he was involved in some way, and did not pay much of a price for it.

[MadtownPacker]

Obviously Patler doesn't like Ray Lewis but Woody you're out of line for thinking somehow he cant express that and start a thread. It is actually a very legit topic. So slow your "nonsense" down buddy.

[MadtownPacker]

You would think based on the current standards it would be a year at least. Goodell seems to punish based on the negative attention it brings and the murder was bad press for sure. But it happened under different rules and he played that system to his advantage.

[Patler]

Damn.

Are you now 'judge and jury' in regards to Ray Lewis's life? How do you live with being so judgementle?

Was Ray Lewis ever convicted of any crime in that case? Yes or no?

Right....so where are you going with this nonsence?

Sometimes I seriously wonder if you can or do actually read what I write.

Judgmental? I very specifically and carefully worded my statement so as not to imply anything beyond what actually happened. To that end I have written that:

He was indicted for murder - Fact.
He reached a deal and plead guilty to obstruction of justice during the investigation of the murder in return for his testimony - Fact.
He reached financial settlements with the families of both murder victims - Fact.

Beyond that, all I wrote was what you quoted:

Jolly had multiple offenses involving a personal addiction.
Lewis' situation involved a double homicide.

Basically, Jolly was hurting himself. Whatever Lewis's involvement was, it was in regard to the murders of two young men. Not much of a comparison, in my opinion.

Did I say he was convicted of a crime? No I did not. I was very careful not to allege anything by writing that his "situation involved a double murder" and further: "Whatever Lewis involvement was, it was in regard to the murders of two young men." I neither alleged, inferred nor remotely suggested that he performed any particular act beyond that which he admitted.

Please identify any part of my statements that are false, judgmental, or not 100% based on fact.

Goodell has punished many players who have not committed crimes for which they were convicted, and has based those punishments on their association with an activity that brought detrimental notoriety to themselves and the league. We have had many discussions on here about the heavy hand with which he has been dealing player punishment for actions both on and off the field. Because of that, I thought it might be an interesting discussion for the off season to consider what he might do to a player who:

- admitted to being at the scene of a double murder, even if he admitted no specific knowledge of what occurred.
- was indicted for double murder.
- was in the company of two friends also indicted for the two murders.
- was willing to plead guilty to obstruction of justice during the investigation of those murders.
- agreed to cash settlements with the families of both victims (reportedly for millions of dollars).


As to my opinion that there is no comparison between the case of Johnny Jolly and that of Ray Lewis, I stand by that, based on the information I have from public reports. I have little patience for someone who would obstruct the investigation of the murders of two young men, which Ray Lewis in fact plead guilty to. For me, bringing murders to justice is more important than punishing someone for a personal addiction (Johnny Jolly).

I actually thought this might turn into more of a discussion about Goodell and they way in which he determines player punishment. Instead, you are now trying to turn it into a personal discussion about me.

Why is that?

Instead of asking where this is going, maybe you should just remain silent for a bit a see where the thread does go instead of trying to turn it into a discussion about me or my motives in starting it.

Personally, I think the Roger Goodell of 2010-2012, if presented the facts of the Ray Lewis situation, would have given him much more than a simple fine.

Heck, Goodell suspended players for obstructing the leagues investigation into player bounties. Do you think he wouldn't suspend someone for obstructing the investigation of a double murder????

[Cheesehead Craig]

Great topic Patler.

My opinions on how Goodell would have handled it:
- Year long suspension for Lewis, no question.
- Independent investigation by the NFL about the situation and they would come up with their own story of what happened and not just rely on the courts.
- Likely a "parole type" hearing after the year suspension to review how Ray has been since the incident. Goodell can use this type of hearing to prolong the suspension depending on public sentiment of how the case was handled in the courts.

Goodell is very conscious of how the public perceives him and and the NFL, moreso than previous commisioners IMO. He doesn't want to appear soft or that he letting the inmates run the asylumn, so to speak.

I think an equally good question would be: What would the Ravens as an organization have done if it happened today? I wonder how many years Ray had on his contract at the time? If he was suspended for a season or two, would the team have released him instead of keeping a player under contract who wasn't playing and obviously in the commish's doghouse (assuming a multiple year ban as stated above)? This of course is all supposition on my part. I wonder how many years Ray had on his contract at the time.

[mraynrand]

Sometimes I seriously wonder if you can or do actually read what I write.

judgementle nonsence

[mraynrand]

I suspect whatever Goodell decided, he'd have several armed body guards with him during the 'interview' with Lewis.