Worst Packer Personnel Move Ever

[Pugger]

Yeah, it's tough to figure out what caused all the bad drafts for sure.

Bob Harlan reached the conclusion that the HC was the GM model was to blame. There were many instances where the HC/GM ignored his couts advice and went ahead and picked who they wanted. The big example is the '79 draft. Red Cochrane was the head scout for the Pack. He was adamant that Bart draft Joe Montana, who was still available. Starr agreed then stubbornly picked a no name DL. Red exploded and threw his clipboard across the Packer draft room and stalked out.

Starr admitted in his autobiography that he had made the move to merely excert his authority. He also admitted it was one of his dumbest moves of his career.

I agree.

So it's tough to tellwho was to blame for all the bad drafts.

Yes, but Harlan was stupid enough to forgo that and give freaking Mike Sherman both jobs! Thankfully he finally took the GM duties away and hired TT.

[Joemailman]

Yes, but Harlan was stupid enough to forgo that and give freaking Mike Sherman both jobs! Thankfully he finally took the GM duties away and hired TT.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...man-packers-gm

"I think it was the worst decision I made, quite honestly," Harlan told Green & Gold Today on Tuesday, via ESPNMilwaukee.com.

Harlan always believed coaching and GM duties should be kept separate, but he wrestled with the notion of replacing Wolf with an outsider. Sherman and Wolf had worked well together, and Harlan was reluctant to shake things up.

"I was concerned that if a new man came in from the outside, (Sherman) might have trouble getting along with him, (or) the new man might want to come in and want to totally change the scouting staff, which I thought was a capable young scouting staff. And so I decided to do something that I don't like to do -- give one man both jobs," Harlan said. "And (Sherman) didn't hurt us on the field -- we went 12-4, 12-4, 10-6, 10-6. (He) did a great job of coaching. But it got to the point when we started having problems with players that he almost seemed to be ignoring the team."

Harlan apparently felt there was no one in the organization groomed to replace Wolf. Ted Thompson was in Seattle by this time.

[Kiwon]

My instant reaction about the worst moves (just from memory...)

1. Hadl trade
2. Tony Mandarich selection
3. Sherman as HC and GM (after denying that role to Holmgren)
4. Not paying Craig Hentrich his FA money
5. Tie: Selection of BJ Sander and Cletidus Hunt FA contract

[red]

My instant reaction about the worst moves (just from memory...)

1. Hadl trade
2. Tony Mandarich selection
3. Sherman as HC and GM (after denying that role to Holmgren)
4. Not paying Craig Hentrich his FA money
5. Tie: Selection of BJ Sander and Cletidus Hunt FA contract

the sherman/holmgren thing always burned me, giving a below average coach full control after telling a good coach that he couldn't have it

things might have been a lot different if we had just given full control to holmgren and kept him

and it turned out holmgren wasn't half bad doing that job in seattle, meanwhile, sherman blew at it

[pbmax]

the sherman/holmgren thing always burned me, giving a below average coach full control after telling a good coach that he couldn't have it

things might have been a lot different if we had just given full control to holmgren and kept him

and it turned out holmgren wasn't half bad doing that job in seattle, meanwhile, sherman blew at it

I am not sure Holmgren was cut out for it, but he would have been a better GM than Sherman.

The question is whether he would have adapted his O, or try to FA or draft his way out of a talent slump. Without A Green, there wasn't a lot of firepower for Favre to pitch it to on the edges. Oddly, if you assume A Green's presence, Sherman might have been the better O coach for the talent. Defensive side would have been interesting with Fritz getting sick.

[Joemailman]

the sherman/holmgren thing always burned me, giving a below average coach full control after telling a good coach that he couldn't have it

things might have been a lot different if we had just given full control to holmgren and kept him

and it turned out holmgren wasn't half bad doing that job in seattle, meanwhile, sherman blew at it

Holmgren's success at Seattle occurred after he was stripped of the GM duties. He couldn't do both jobs. He also failed as an executive at Cleveland. He was a good coach. Only. Besides, was Harlan supposed to fire the GM who turned the franchise around and give the job to Holmgren? If Holmgren had stayed here as coach instead of being such an egotistical jerk we could have ended up with him as coach and Ted Thompson as GM once Wolf was ready to retire.

[pbmax]

Holmgren's success at Seattle occurred after he was stripped of the GM duties. He couldn't do both jobs. He also failed as an executive at Cleveland. He was a good coach. Only. Besides, was Harlan supposed to fire the GM who turned the franchise around and give the job to Holmgren? If Holmgren had stayed here as coach instead of being such an egotistical jerk we could have ended up with him as coach and Ted Thompson as GM once Wolf was ready to retire.

To be fair to Mike1, he went to the Super Bowl as coach only but with a lot of guys he choose. Whathisface the GM after Mike1/T2 was only there for a year prior.

The real question is of course for the guy who never gets grilled about the few boneheaded things he did: why did Wolf hang around for exactly one more year (plus M2's apprenticeship) after Holmgren left?

[Joemailman]

To be fair to Mike1, he went to the Super Bowl as coach only but with a lot of guys he choose. Whathisface the GM after Mike1/T2 was only there for a year prior.

The real question is of course for the guy who never gets grilled about the few boneheaded things he did: why did Wolf hang around for exactly one more year (plus M2's apprenticeship) after Holmgren left?

Either he was a bad GM or having to do both roles decreased hie effectiveness as a coach. When doing both roles, he was sub .500. As coach only, he won about 65% of the time with 3 Super Bowl appearances. In my opinion, the contrast is too stark to be a coincidence.

When Wolf retired, he said he no longer had the energy to do the job the way it needed to be done. While many have questioned if that was the real reason, two things suggest he was telling the truth. First, his last draft was undeniably his worst. Second he never took another major job with another team after stepping away from the Packers.

[RUnuts]

The Mandarich pick is a prime example of what a crap shoot the draft is. As I recall and correct me if I'm wrong, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 other GMs thought the packers made a great choice in picking him, he was thought of as a "can't lose" pick.

I'm not sure if it was possible to know about a college player's steroid use back then but I remember he was about 20 to 25 lbs lighter when he finally showed up in training camp.

[Patler]

Bruce Clark had made suggestions before the draft that he didn't want to play in GB (and I think a couple other places, too) and that he would go to Canada instead of playing where he didn't want to play. I remember thinking at the time that the Packers were calling his bluff. It was no bluff.

Clark wasn't a complete loss. The Packers traded his rights to NO, and I think drafted Tim Lewis with the draft pick from NO. Tim Lewis was well on his way to being one of the best CBs in the league when a neck injury ended his career.

Mandarich turned out bad, but you can't fault the selection at the time. As someone mentioned above, another GM said later that all but a few teams who had stud LTs would have taken Mandarich, too. He was thought of as being as close to can't miss as there can be.

[Pugger]

The Mandarich pick is a prime example of what a crap shoot the draft is. As I recall and correct me if I'm wrong, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 other GMs thought the packers made a great choice in picking him, he was thought of as a "can't lose" pick.

I'm not sure if it was possible to know about a college player's steroid use back then but I remember he was about 20 to 25 lbs lighter when he finally showed up in training camp.

Yes, Tony had a lot of other GMs hoodwinked. Once he was off the juice he was pretty bad. He did resurrect his career in Indy and was a decent guard for them for 3 seasons after he got clean.

[woodbuck27]

Bruce Clark had made suggestions before the draft that he didn't want to play in GB (and I think a couple other places, too) and that he would go to Canada instead of playing where he didn't want to play. I remember thinking at the time that the Packers were calling his bluff. It was no bluff.

Clark wasn't a complete loss. The Packers traded his rights to NO, and I think drafted Tim Lewis with the draft pick from NO. Tim Lewis was well on his way to being one of the best CBs in the league when a neck injury ended his career.

Mandarich turned out bad, but you can't fault the selection at the time. As someone mentioned above, another GM said later that all but a few teams who had stud LTs would have taken Mandarich, too. He was thought of as being as close to can't miss as there can be.

" Bruce Clark had made suggestions before the draft that he didn't want to play in GB (and I think a couple other places, too) and that he would go to Canada instead of playing where he didn't want to play. I remember thinking at the time that the Packers were calling his bluff. It was no bluff."

Yes Patler that's the way it comes back to me. It was a real shocker that Bruce Clark actually signed with the Toronto Argo's; a big CFL story and coup for the Argo's and league.

[pbmax]

Either he was a bad GM or having to do both roles decreased hie effectiveness as a coach. When doing both roles, he was sub .500. As coach only, he won about 65% of the time with 3 Super Bowl appearances. In my opinion, the contrast is too stark to be a coincidence.

When Wolf retired, he said he no longer had the energy to do the job the way it needed to be done. While many have questioned if that was the real reason, two things suggest he was telling the truth. First, his last draft was undeniably his worst. Second he never took another major job with another team after stepping away from the Packers.

Agree about doing both making him a worse coach. My point was that he did collect some fine players along the way. It did help having higher draft picks from the poor record. Ruskell did spend some money to fill a few holes. It then blew up in his face.

I just find it hard to imagine Wolf ran out of steam in that particular year. Not only hasn't he taken another job, but he also has not been sick. He must have known he was close to retiring when Holmgren was talking about moving on. It might be just too much to ask someone as successful and well-paid as Wolf to time his departure at the employers maximum convenience. And wasn't his last draft the Reynolds debacle? I think that was more Sherman shopping from a list rather than Wolf getting tired.

[Joemailman]

Ah yes, the Jamal Reynolds debacle. Was that Wolf's pick, and evidence that he was right to retire? Or was that Sherman's pick and just the first instance of Sherman reaching in the draft to fill a need?

I remember reading that an unidentified member of the Packer organization said that they were surprised how small Reynolds was when he showed up for minicamps. Isn't that something that would get noticed at the Combine? Chad Clifton made that guy absolutely disappear in training camp scrimmages.

[swede]

Ah yes, the Jamal Reynolds debacle. Was that Wolf's pick, and evidence that he was right to retire? Or was that Sherman's pick and just the first instance of Sherman reaching in the draft to fill a need?

I remember reading that an unidentified member of the Packer organization said that they were surprised how small Reynolds was when he showed up for minicamps. Isn't that something that would get noticed at the Combine? Chad Clifton made that guy absolutely disappear in training camp scrimmages.

I was at a TC practice that year when Jamaal walked past in a wife-beater, having already stripped off his gear. It would be a stretch to think he weighed any more than 235 pounds, even at his height. He was tall and really thin. Thin in his hips, waist, legs, shoulders, and neck. He had a little bit of a chest but the latissimus and traps weren't there.

That fail cost us, because it directly led to the Joe Johnson debacle, over-paying Cletidus, and reaching for a bunch of never wuzzes with our mid-round picks for the next few years

Still, the Hadl trade was the worst ever.

As far as draft picks Tony Mandarich was easily the most memorable bad pick, but Jamal Reynolds and Jon Michaels were pretty bad too.