Must read for GB fans frustrated about FAs

[red]

thank you pb, i actually took a lot from that

[wist43]

i just don't understand capers version of the 3-4

i always understood that the d-linemen in a 3-4 where suppose to be great big fat guys that take on two or more blockers, that allows the LBers to get to the qb

capers seems to not like to bring those Lbers as much as i think he should, leaving those fat oversized d-linemen who were never good at rushing the passer to get all the pressure. leaving qb's all day to find someone imo

so IMO the goal of the d-linemen should be to stand up and try to engage two blockers, not try and beat them off the snap and slip by the tackles to the outside

i guess i still just don't understand the capers 3-4

Capers can claim as his defense for all the gimmick looks, that TT has given him is mish-mash of defensive players most of whom are miscast to the base positions and roles of a 3-4.

Capers only has 1 2-gap player to work with - Pickett. Given that restriction he goes ahead and knowingly misuses Raji on the nose. I would find ways not to do that - which given what Capers has, means he should go to a 4-3 instead of a 2-4, 2-5, or 1-5 as his first sub package.

The front seven personnel that the Packers have are better suited to playing in a 4-3. TT acknowledged that to some degree when these players were drafted, but said they were "good football players", and they'll find ways to use them. Only problem is, the ways they're being used present small fronts that can be easily moved off the ball, and are fundamentally unsound.

I'm not arguing to go back to a 4-3, I'm just saying that Capers has been handed 4-3 personnel by TT, and playing a 2-4 nickel on 2nd and 5 isn't the answer.

You can get away with weak and passive fronts against the likes of Kansas City and Jacksonville - but against powerhouse running teams?? You're gonna get rung up for big yards, and it's unlikely our suddenly human offense will be able to keep pace.

Witness the stomping the Niners put on us twice last year. Not a damn thing we could do about it - they had their hand on our head, and were in complete control of both games. Complete domination in the trenches - on both sides of the ball.

[wist43]

Just like Fangio in San Fran with their manly, non 2 hand touch defense.

They played it a little... Capers played it a lot.

Plus, their players are light years better than ours.

[wist43]

The old static 3-4 from Chuck Fairbanks and the AFC was a static 2-gap defense where the lineman had to be big and strong (esp. at end) hold their leverage and allow LBs to make the plays.

By the time that D was established in Pittsburgh (though not originally), that 2 gap was gone and some of the fronts of a 3-4 looked very similar to a 4-3 defense. Parcells and Belicheck ran more of a static 2 gap in New York. Billy later ran a bit of hybrid (3-4, 4-3). Ryan runs a one gap hybrid. Capers has run both. Nose tackles are often asked to 2 gap when everyone else is 1 gapping.

Over time, those big strong 2 gap defenders morphed as defenses tried to get taller and taller ends to interfere with the passing game when not subbing. So today the ideal became Aaron Smith at end.

In Green Bay, he has played some two gap esp. on run downs. But it tends to be one gap here. Part of this is tailoring the D to the personnel he has. Jolly and Jenkins could 2 gap. Raji, Pickett (at end) and Wynn don't 2 gap much at end. Neal is big enough to do it, but the vast majority of his playing time has been on pass rush. Howard Green was a one man 2 gap front.

The odd thing about Thompson's draft last year was that ALL the pass rushers were one gap or 4-3 sized defenders. Worthy is big enough to do 3-4 and 2 gap, but like Raji his game is quickness and get off. And this does create some pressure for Capers to one gap his defense and play a front that is reminiscent of a 4-3 (the Eagle).

Jolly will not change that from a pass rush perspective. But he and Wilson can 2 gap the 3-4 run D should he make it.

I agree with most of that, but don't think Worthy can 2-gap consistently, CJ Wilson needs to be flipping burgers somewhere, and I'm not sold on Neal being able to hold down an end position in a base 3-4.

Most of the guys TT has brought in aren't a natural fit for a traditional 3-4. Smallish fronts, and being pushed around by bullies is what you're left with.

I wanted to go a 3-4 years ago, but what TT and Capers have created is a mess. The dreaded "amoeba defense"... Capers has to go, and hopefully we start over next year.

[pbmax]

I really hope AP running all over the Pack and the SF playoff game woke Capers the hell up. Somethings gotta change, whether it's the scheme, the coaching or the actual players.

That was not so much scheme (certainly not the second reg season game), but discipline. Players, trying to defeat AP by themselves (Raji was esp. guilty of this in each 2nd half) tried to defeat their blocker and make the play themselves.

This creates seams and gaps in the defense. Think Raji engaging his blocker and gaining control versus engaging his blocker, disengaging and running to one side 2 yards deep in the backfield. Peterson is so patient and then so quick, that he can wait at the LOS for Raji to commit, then avoid him and step into the vacated area to choose a hole.

The sequence the Packers saw most often with Peterson was a zone run toward Matthews with Peterson stalling behind the LOS waiting for the other contain guy to commit, then running counter to the direction of the play, outrunning the LB and safety and simply blowing over the CB on that backside.

Those plays are not scheme, they are discipline. And they are one of the reasons (inability to play zone coverage is another) that I have some doubts about the Packer D position coaches.

I can create the greatest anti-AP scheme but if my players play it like 6 year olds in soccer or basketball (which always looks like amoeba follow-the-leader ball), Peterson will make it look like swiss cheese.

[pbmax]

They played it a little... Capers played it a lot.

Plus, their players are light years better than ours.

I agree with this. And the best player the Pack have on the DL, Raji, is not ideally suited to a 3-4 NT. Its a bit of a mess. Not efficient. I alternate between being worried about that versus concerns with the position coaches teaching techniques.

On the upside, the difference between the Super Bowl Defense and this defense (in the front seven) is Bishop who could be back. His health is important. Jolly will help, if he makes it, like Green did.

Still need better second safety play.

[woodbuck27]

I wouldn't blame Raji for running for the door... TT hasn't done much to add talent to the front seven, and Capers misuses him. Last year TT panicked and drafted a few front seven players, but they were all miscast as 3-4 players. Which amounts to no relief for Raji.

Capers wants to play two-hand touch football and sees nothing wrong with lining up with only 1 DL on the field, and he plays nickel with 2 down linemen as his base as much or more than having 3 down linemen. Has to be very frustrating for a 3T/5T player like Raji to be misused on just about every snap. TT and Capers deserve each other, and Raji deserves parole.

From Raji's perspective, I'd imagine he's anxious to move on. His talent is wasted in GB.

If this is OPTION ONE. I vote for OPTION ONE.

Let BJ Raji walk. It's easy to grab back CAP space.

Does BJ Raji enjoy his role on our team?

I've been determining the correct answer is 'no'. That he feels that he's built for and wants a chance to pressure the QB. He wants to play a more glamourous role on a team that recognizes his skills. Not alot of game replays feature 'the big man' holding down that assignment. It's sad to observe this man over the course of the last two seasons. In terms of his exhaustion factor from being fresh to looking almost dizzy with exhaustion at seasons end.

It didn't get better this season for our DL. This time last year we knew that Ryan Pickett and BJ Raji needed help.

Has Ryan Pickett really still got lots in his tank? He looked absolutely tanked by seasons end. Sadly the much needed relief we hoped that these two defensive lineman would receive, after the 2011 season didn't arrive. The status of Jerel Worthy will mean he's another season away.

Our 'Big Men' need other 'Big Men' to give them a rest. This 'Red Flag Need' cannot be satisfied based on speculation or Johnny Jolly to the rescue. It needs the focus and clear attention of our GM.