What production do you expect from GREG JENNINGS?

[Patler]

Patler,

You never admit you are wrong because you are never wrong. My Aunt tells me that I was a know it all when I was a kid, and that made all of the adults mad... because, damn it, I was always right.

It is tough isn't it Harv?

[Bretsky]

I admitted I was wrong last week when I thought I made a mistake

[Patler]

3.5 per game sounds about right. 56 at about 13 yards per catch so 728.

I do think Jennings is capable of that. Patler insisted a while ago that Murphy had the same hype and looked to be just as good of a player before he got injured. Once Patler starts an arguement, I've never seen him admit he may have been mistaken. Not once.

I think you can be a bit stubborn ol'Patler.

Nick,

I agree with Harv here. I don't think Patler is stubborn at all. He builds overwhelming cases based on cold hard facts. Lots of em.

[ceeman]

[quote="Patler"][quote="Scott Campbell"][quote="GregJennings"]3.5 per game sounds about right. 56 at about 13 yards per catch so 728.

I do think Jennings is capable of that. Patler insisted a while ago that Murphy had the same hype and looked to be just as good of a player before he got injured. Once Patler starts an arguement, I've never seen him admit he may have been mistaken. Not once.




I think the hype on Jennings is much bigger than it was for Murphy. Murphy had Driver, Walker, and Ferguson in front of him. Jennings could be our #2. I think Jennings is more polished than Murphy was, and will make a bigger impact. All scouting reports say average speed, average size, good quickness, excellent route running. Sounds vaguley familiar of Marvin Harrison. Not saying he will be as good, but that's the best case scenario for his career.

[Terry]

Part of the reason that I disagree right now is that he has played 2 preseason games in which starters often play little or not at all and defenses are watered down from what he will see in games 1-16 that really count. I see nothing so far to indicate that Jennings is a truly elite rookie, just a good one so far. Hopefully he will develope into an elite one.

I agree with that. It's a good point. I was devil's advocating.

Patler,

You never admit you are wrong because you are never wrong.

I wish someone had told me sooner!

[Terry]

I admitted I was wrong last week when I thought I made a mistake

Oh, you mean you were wrong last week when you thought you'd been wrong the week before.

[RashanGary]

Nothin wrong with being a little stubborn. I still insist that Jennings had more hype early, middle and late. Muphy's clips seemed like the usual fluff piece. Jennings had more substance to it. It could have been becasue I watched Jennings for many hours of practice and knew he was better than the rest, so that extra knowledge made me think the press was more legit. Who the hell knows...I just think Jennings is better right now than Murphy was even after 3 weeks of the season and I think the press articals represented it, although it could be me confusing it with my own observations.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Nick,

I think we went over this in another thread, and I took the effort to dig up all of the praise heaped on Murphy last year--with several links to articles about him saying a lot of the same things that were said about Jennings. Of course, Jennings has been healthy and played well in the preseason, so it's gone to a whole new level with him. Now, who is the one being stubborn?

[Badgepack]

I think that Jennings has taken command of his role of #2 or #3 receiver, where as Murphy only showed a hint of doing so.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think that Jennings has taken command of his role of #2 or #3 receiver, where as Murphy only showed a hint of doing so.

That's not the argument though. Neither patler or myself said that Jennings hasn't shown more. It's just that going into camp the buzz on Jennings was similar to Murphy. Murphy barely played last preseason, so he wasn't able to show what he could do. Until we actually watched Jennings in the scrimmage and preseason games, all of the buzz was just that. He had to prove it on the field--which he has done.

Go to this thread to see the arguments made previously:

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=2304

[RashanGary]

Nick,

I think we went over this in another thread, and I took the effort to dig up all of the praise heaped on Murphy last year--with several links to articles about him saying a lot of the same things that were said about Jennings. Of course, Jennings has been healthy and played well in the preseason, so it's gone to a whole new level with him. Now, who is the one being stubborn?

Similar things were being said, but not on similar levels. It's a matter of interpratation I suppose. Many of these little debates end in whoever is more persistant getting the last word. I don't necessarily think there is one person who is right or wrong, however my interpratations of the articals was that Jennings was getting praised for similar things but at a higher level *example - Jennings compared to Harrison as far as how quickly he caught on and Murphy just being called a quick learner*. You and Patler can argue that it was the same thing, but I stand by my analysis that Jennings praise was done at a higher level. Also, I think Jennings continuing to take steps and continues to show that he is, in fact, better than Murphy was at this point last season, has some bearing on who was right or wrong. In the end it is all in perception and many here are masters of hiding behind that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jennings compared to Harrison as far as how quickly he caught on and Murphy just being called a quick learner*

Is the same WR coach that was here last year the same one who said this? Did he coach Marvin Harrison? All he said was that Jennings was an extremely quick learner. The coaches were basically saying the same things last year, but maybe they were less inclined to hyperbole. Talk about thick-headed. I guess the five articles we posted about how good Murphy looked last offseason has no weight.

in fact, better than Murphy was at this point last season, has some bearing on who was right or wrong. In the end it is all in perception and many here are masters of hiding behind that.

It has zero bearing. In fact, it's completely meaningless to go back after the fact and try to use this for the argument at the time. Nobody ever said Jennings wouldn't be better. Most of us cautioned that what we were hearing about Jennings we heard last year. Nobody can say for sure how Murphy would have looked had he actually been able to play in the preseason. The hype keeps building for Jennings. Who knows what kind of hype Murphy would have gotten had he in fact played well last preseason.

[RashanGary]

Well..If you think there is some black and white answer to this, so be it. I think it's all perception. Again, I've stated mine as a perception. YOu're stating yours as fact. If you and Patler want to win the battle of persistance like you usualy do, I'll just bow out.

[the_idle_threat]

GregJennings is right and Patler and Harvey are wrong on this one. Wait a second ... could that possibly be true???

It is true.

Read what was being said about Murphy again, and then read what is being said about Jennings.

The talk about Murphy was all about how he was better than they expected, and a great worker with a great attitude.

"He's made some plays out here and is ahead of where I thought he would be," Sherman said.

That being the case, Murphy appears ready to contribute a bit more quickly than Ferguson did. Still, he does admit that learning the Packers' West Coast offense is a bit trying.

"Yeah, it's complicated," Murphy said. "Because I never ran the West Coast offense, I just ran the option with a few basic routes. I've got a lot to learn, but I'm learning from the older guys. Donald Driver and all those guys are helping me out."

Franklin seems confident Murphy will learn the offense quickly enough.

"He's an intelligent kid, a coach's kid, so I'm not concerned about that," Franklin said. "He's picking up the offense well and he's doing a great job."

Coach Mike Sherman denied on draft day that Murphy was a leverage pick against a holdout by Walker. Maybe so, but if Murphy develops faster at a position that has been notoriously difficult for rookies to master, the Packers will have options galore.

Size and speed are pluses for Murphy, but what might help him most in '05 is a mature approach.

"He came in and was a big surprise," Franklin said. "We expected him to be good, don't get me wrong. But this kid is very smart and has a great work ethic. Those two things will put the kid in position to contribute."

Crystal's blog, Friday 7/29:
"Wide receiver Terrence Murphy, one of the Packers’ two second-round draft choices, picked up where he left off in the second mini-camp. On the first day of full squad, twice-a-day workouts, he popped out in both practices for making a batch of catches. He looked smooth in and out of his cuts, held onto the ball and suggested that he’ll push for playing time as a rookie. “He’s pretty polished in terms of fundamentals,” said James Franklin, the Packers’ wide receiver coach. Murphy also appears to be deceptively fast."

Rosseley Liked him:

"During training camp, offensive coordinator Tom Rossley said Murphy had strong hands, a good change of direction and was a good runner after the catch. When he did practice, he didn't leave an imprint on the coaches' minds with one flashy play. It was his general consistency and reliability that they liked.

"There are a lot of guys that are willing to put the time in the weight room," said Green Bay wide receivers assistant coach James Franklin. "There are a lot of guys trying to be the hardest working guy on the practice field. There are a lot of guys who will spend time in the playbook learning the plays.

"It's not very often you find a guy who is willing to do all three of those things. He's that type of guy. He truly wants to be great and he's willing to sacrifice for it."

Given that he came from an option offense in college and was going to be learning the WCO, the coaches had muted expectations for the kid. He came in and blew those expectations away, causing the coaches to believe they might have a guy who could unexpectedly contribute in his rookie season. They were talking #4 receiver, behind DD, JWalk, and Fergie, beating out Antonio Chatman.

Beyond that, the talk was about development ... weight room dedication, willingness to study, willingness to stay in Green Bay in the offseason ... the want to be great. They were talking about the guy who would become a great receiver someday ...

Contrast this with the comments being thrown around regarding Greg Jennings:

"He's precise on what he does," said receivers coach Jimmy Robinson, who has been coaching in the NFL since 1990, including a stop with the Indianapolis Colts. "He understands what he's doing. Marvin Harrison was a guy that came out and understood what was going on right away. He was a starter from the very beginning. Other than that I can't really think of too many rookies that have come in and understood things as quickly as he has."

Jennings has been by far the star of training camp, leading all receivers in catches during 11-on-11 drills with 10 and continually running routes like a 10-year veteran. The second-round pick from Western Michigan has picked up the West Coast offense faster than any rookie receiver the Packers have had since Antonio Freeman.

[By ROB REISCHEL Special to Packer Plus Posted: Aug. 24, 2006]

Week by week, Jennings continues to establish himself as the clear-cut No. 2 wide receiver.

"He's a young guy that's kind of hit his stride very early," McCarthy said. "And I don't think that's common in our league. He looks like the same guy that you watched playing in college playing every day down on our practice field and now out there under the lights.

"We're very excited about Greg and he's done everything we've asked. And he's only going to get better, so that's exciting."

WEDNESDAY, Aug. 16, 2006, 7:08 p.m.
Camp Report, Aug. 16

THUMBS UP

Rookie wide receiver Greg Jennings isn’t Randy Moss. Certainly as a rookie and maybe for the duration of his career, Jennings isn’t going to have defensive coordinators breaking into cold sweats, fretting that he might score on any given play from anywhere on the field if they don’t gear their coverage to stop him. But Jennings looks to be about as ready-made as any rookie receiver the Packers have had since Hall of Famer James Lofton in 1978. And that includes first-round draft picks Sterling Sharpe and Javon Walker, who made big impacts but not until their second year.

Wednesday was the 22nd practice of camp and Jennings as he has done on more than occasion made the biggest play of the day: Catching a deep bomb from Brett Favre down the sideline. Jennings might not have been the biggest – he’s 5-foot-11 and 197 pounds – or fastest receiver – his 40-yard dash time was 4.42 – in last spring’s draft. But he’s quick in and out of cuts, blessed with natural hands and probably more able than most rookies to escape bump coverage. On top of all that, he already acts and plays like a seasoned veteran. “His greatest strength is maybe his poise and maturity,” said wide receivers coach Jimmy Robinson.

If Jennings stays healthy and continues to improve, he could be a second-round steal and a productive receiver over a long career even if he never scares people like a Moss or Terrell Owens.

The praise for Jennings is not qualified by such phrases as "much better than expectations," "pretty good for a rookie," and "wants to be great [someday]."

They're throwing phrases around like "starter from the very beginning," "plays like a seasoned veteran," and "as ready-to-play as (pick one: Marvin Harrison, James Lofton, Antonio Freeman)."

This is a much higher level of praise. Coaches and observers were very impressed with Terrence Murphy, but they are even more impressed with Greg Jennings.

Now some of this might have to do with the fact that the team needs somebody to step up into the void left by Javon Walker's departure and Murphy's early and unexpected retirement ... so coaches might be lavishing unusual praise because they want it for him so much. But the higher praise is there nonetheless.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It would be valid, idle threat--if the quotes you were using for Jennings were from before training camp/preseason started. Again, we had this discussion before they were one week into training camp. Before the scrimmage. Long before any preseason games. Those quotes for Jennings are from August 16th, August 24th, etc. Dig up the quotes on Jennings before the preseason started, and let me know what the coaches were saying.