Derek Sherrod Health Speculation

[pbmax]

I agree Newhouse has been best of poor options. Healthy, Sherrod would blow his doors off at Left Tackle. But we haven't been there yet.

[Patler]

I agree Newhouse has been best of poor options. Healthy, Sherrod would blow his doors off at Left Tackle. But we haven't been there yet.

I know many on here are of the opinion that Sherrod had begun to show promise before getting hurt. I thought he was only marginally less awful than what he had shown early in the season.

Surpassing Newhouse is not a real high hurdle to clear, but Sherrod needs to do a lot more than just get healthy.

[woodbuck27]

I know many on here are of the opinion that Sherrod had begun to show promise before getting hurt. I thought he was only marginally less awful than what he had shown early in the season.

Surpassing Newhouse is not a real high hurdle to clear, but Sherrod needs to do a lot more than just get healthy.

How about this Patler? Why place it on the player? Ted Thompson has to do alot more. How long does Aaron Rodgers need to wait for a LT?

If Ted Thompson cannot solve the problems; we all should be aware of on our OL. Add in the degree of incompetence of Marshall Newhouse; the risks waiting for Derek Sherrod.

We're all aware of the way that Aaron Rodgers is getting punished. What is he wearing? A sack me please sign!? He gets over the top sacked too often. Are we going to blame that on Aaron Rodgers?

Why is that problem of our QB and sacks existing?

Ted Thompson has demonstrated poor vision drafting for the Green Bay Packers Offensive Line. Isn't Ted Thompson guilty of neglect? Guilty of continuing to ignore what should be his primary concern. Protecting his valued QB.

Does Ted Thompson have any options open to him RE: a superior LT? He continues to ignore the options.

Look at this one issue and ask yourself. What is Aaron Rodgers thinking?

Maybe that it would be simply smart and in his personal best interest, concerning his health. To simply wait on that huge contract; price himself out of Green Bay. Land with a team that has a GM that can protect him with a robust OL.

What's a life after football of hurting every day? Of suffering all the symptoms of multiple concussions.

What price should Aaron Rodgers place on that?

PACKERS !

[red]

I know many on here are of the opinion that Sherrod had begun to show promise before getting hurt. I thought he was only marginally less awful than what he had shown early in the season.

Surpassing Newhouse is not a real high hurdle to clear, but Sherrod needs to do a lot more than just get healthy.

great points. agreed

thats why we really needed to seem him at least practice last year to see what we have. if he can't be better then newhouse, then its time to call a bust a bust, and we need to go looking for an upgrade at LT somewhere else

newhouse is a decent backup who can step in for a time if needed, but he's not a starting LT

[woodbuck27]

This is the ideal thread to drop this on:

Thompson: Analysts Are Idiots

** Idiots

http://www.totalpackers.com/2011/04/25/thompson-analysts-are-idiots/

Comment woodbuck27:

** Idiots ...I've no reason to believe that Ted Thompson used such characterization.

At least, I hope not.

Yet... it's a really Ted? Is that so Ted?

Just like most people. People generally are right and wrong.

If those fellas were wrong ? Again, TT didn't classify them as idiots.

Were these fellas right? From BR:

RE: Ted Thompson's Round 1 Pick #32 in that 2011 draft ....Derek Sherrod, OL, Mississippi State.

" It's not a reach or a flashy pick, but instead it's a safer one.

Sherrod is great in all areas of an offensive lineman's game but doesn't have one strength in particular.
The Packers needed some offensive line help and it gives the Packers some flexibility. Sherrod could be put at left or right tackle and possibly even left guard.He gives the Packers a number of options on the offensive line and will help an area that needed some aid last season. "

Grade: A-

PACKERS !

[RashanGary]

Surpassing Newhouse is not a real high hurdle to clear, but Sherrod needs to do a lot more than just get healthy.

And just how high his that hurdle? We have a lot of context to sort through.


The hurdle has been growing since Newhouse entered the league. MM talks a lot about 2nd and 3rd year players being the guys he counts on as the growth of the team. There several reasons I look at Newhouse like one of those 3rd year players MM believes provide the most growth.

1. He's 24. In two weeks, Sherrod will be the same age. Newhouse came in very young, at a position that requires man strength. He's fully healthy and able to stack another offseason of training under his belt.

2. The school he came from is not Iowa or Alabama. I've heard scouts talk about trusting OL from some schools more than others because they do it the same way. Guys are ready. Newhouse came in raw. Three years at Iowa has to be worth half a season of NFL training, scouts sure seem to put stock in it.

3. He was a guard for us as a rookie. He didn't have to play, but he worked out and practiced as a guard. It was training, legit NFL training, but not at the position he's playing now. In year 2, he was a swing G/T. He played LG, RT and LT. It wasn't until he was tossed in year 2 that he really began focusing on LT. Again, that's a developmental disadvantage as far as playing well right away.

4. Clearly, at his height, he's a worker or he wouldn't even be playing LT in the NFL. But this is his contract year. Smart money is on that guy being in peak physical shape.

5. He's continually gotten better. Last year, the Packers chose to slide protection to the right side to cover for Lang and Barclay. Newhouse hasn't been great, or even good at times, but I don't have any images burned in my memory bank of him whiffing. McGinn's reivews got better last year. He was thrashed hard as a run blocker, but over time he was praised at times as a pass protector and even the run blocking wasn't as harsh.



All things considered. . . Where he came from, the obstacles he's had to overcome, the history of steady growth that's been continuing. . . . I think the better bet is on Newhouse being a better player than he was last year.

And what was he last year? He was a guy who had trouble alone with Peppers, Osi, JPP. . . He was a guy who was a poor run defender. A lot of NFL LT's have trouble with those guys. The great ones, Clifton in his prime, stuffed the best and made them look bad. Newhouse didn't do that and might never, but his biggest problems were the leagues best pass rushers, and even then, he did pretty well against Allen at the end of last season.



So what hurdle is it that Sherrod has to clear? The way I read the signs, I think he's going to have to be better than an average starting left tackle this year. I think Newhouse was approaching average last year and will meet that mark this year.

And with that, Sherrod has one big disadvantage. He comes from a school that teams do not draft lineman from and that does not produce NFL lineman regularly. He hasn't had time to train at his position. If he's going to be all he can be, I don't think it's going to be now. 25th players in the draft are 50/50 busts to begin with. Even if he isn't, is he going to be all he can be right now? Is 80% of all he can be better than average?

My bet is no. . . . Next season though, if Sherrod shows some signs of being a good player this year, I think my money would be on DS. Newhouse just has too many limitations that I see. But who knows, maybe he proves me wrong too and becomes a darn good LT. In that case, Sherrod's chances go down even further.


My money is on Newhouse starting 2013

If I had to bet on a player being a really good LT in 2014, I'd probably bet on Sherrod just because I don't see Newhouse with that type of talent and Sherrod (talent alone) has a high enough ceiling to be that type of player.

[Pugger]

The year we drafted Sherrod we had no offseason program (OTAs or mini camps) so he missed out on all of that. MM and Campen foolishly tried him out at guard. This kid is no guard and it showed so some automatically think because he sucked at guard he'll suck at tackle. If his leg is fully healed he should be an upgrade at tackle over Newhouse. We'll get a good idea of his progress or lack thereof if TT drafts another tackle high in a couple of weeks.

[woodbuck27]

I disagree.

Outside of RB, there isn't a glaring need on this team. If the Pack drafts a tackle, it tells me one thing: the highest rated player on the board when their pick came up was a tackle. No more, no less.

Looking at it today Guiness my analysis says at #26 BPA these prospects may? be there. It can change weekly. That just might take a jaywalking violation:

On Defense:

DT's ** Sylvester Williams, North Carolina and/or Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State

DE ** Datone Jones, DE, UCLA or Damontre Moore, Texas A&M

CB Johnthan Banks, Mississippi State

On Offense:

WR DeAndre Hopkins, Clemson

TE Tyler Eifert, Notre Dame

** I wouldn't bet that these prospects will be available for TT at #26.

GO PACK GO !

[pbmax]

Newhouse has 29 career starts (and 32 games played) and I believe all but two are at Left Tackle (He may have played RT to fill in for Bulaga in his 2nd year for a time). Its hard to downgrade his experience and call this his magical 3rd year, though I grant you, he missed an offseason like Sherrod did.

By some measures he was the worst starting Left Tackle in the League. At least a part of that is physical size limitation.

If Sherrod is the 30th best Left Tackle in the League at the end of camp, he will start. From a size standpoint alone, he has to reach, lunge and commit less than the smaller Newhouse.

If and I mean if he is healthy, he will start. Newhouse did make strides last year, but it still not enough.

[3irty1]

Newhouse's limitations are not physical. He may be short but he plays with great length. He's got 34 inch arms. The reason he failed at guard is the same reason Sherrod did, he plays too long to uncoil out of a stance as required by a guard. He's not undersized either, listed at 319 and his workout numbers are nothing short of fantastic. I feel like some on here view Newhouse as a guy who's getting by on effort and what little savy and technique he's got but I think its closer to the exact opposite. He's the left-tackle version of Allen Barbre.

My money is on Sherrod to take the job from Newhouse just by outplaying him. Both players play with a catchers mentality and thus are much more finesse players than their physical tools would suggest but Sherrod does not share Newhouse's other weaknesses. At the left tackle spot you can't have a guy that is going to get beat inside as often as Newhouse. He's not as quick off the snap as Sherrod and thus starts to cheat in a direction and plays with shitty balance. Sherrod isn't going to have that problem and I don't know if he'll anchor any better but he'll probably show more in terms of hand-to-hand combat in pass protection as well. If he does what he did in the SEC he's going to be an upgrade in the running game as well. Sherrod is huge and plays even bigger. He seems like a good fit for the system in that he's not much of a mauler but he's a giant moving wall that can open up holes with speed and size alone.

If you can't tell I'm looking forward to seeing Sherrod back on the field. Its way too soon to write him off.

[Smeefers]

I think Newhouse starts the season, but where it goes from there is all up to Sherrod. I don't think Sherrod is going to come in playing at 100% and that's the reason why.

[Zool]

our last 4 first round picks have brought 2 OT's and 2 OLB. we needed 2 OT's and 2 OLB's

if we spend yet another first rounder on either one of those positions, i would be worried we're entering matt millen land

first rounders HAVE to be starters, especially when all we use to build is the draft. we can't afford to be taking guys in the first just to be contributers, and if we draft a third guy in the first to be a OLB or OT thats exactly what we'd be doing

Someone should do some research and see what percentage of 1st rounders are starting and how long they do so. It seems like there are tons of busts from each draft but I don't have enough ambition right now to look it up.

[sharpe1027]

Someone should do some research and see what percentage of 1st rounders are starting and how long they do so. It seems like there are tons of busts from each draft but I don't have enough ambition right now to look it up.

Here is one analysis based upon bust vs. non-busts:

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftology408_1.php

A player has to be a bust if he has had a relatively short career unless it was cut off by injuries. In the case of injuries, we simply can't blame teams unless the player had durability issues in college - teams can't predict which players will get injuries in the future and which won't because it is a part of the game.

Fans can't comprehend that there is at least a 33-percent chance of their 2010 first-round pick busting, but it's true (33% - giving the benefit of the doubt that the scouting in 2010 is better than in recent years).

Probowl Analysis:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-04-22/nfl-draft-2012-first-round-disappointments

Of the 319 first-round picks taken in the last 10 years (the Patriots forfeited their 2008 selection as a penalty for "Spygate"):

— 98 made at least one Pro Bowl (31 percent)

— 55 made multiple Pro Bowls (17 percent)

In other words, less than a third of "can't-miss" prospects selected in the first rounds of the last 10 NFL drafts have gone to even one Pro Bowl.

[woodbuck27]

Someone should do some research and see what percentage of 1st rounders are starting and how long they do so. It seems like there are tons of busts from each draft but I don't have enough ambition right now to look it up.

I wonder if a site like Pro Football Focus has done such a study.

Yes. Doing such a study of OL picks by team; extending that to the DL, DB and WR picks in say an eight year period. Would be similiar to doing a Thesis. Much work. My motion:

Assign that to Patler.

[sharpe1027]

An interesting point is that the walterfootball article has Hawk listed as a bust.