Derek Sherrod Health Speculation

[wist43]

In a 4-3 Matthews is still a situational passrusher aka Bruce Irvin for your super physical bonerhawks. Raji is a NT, he's just also more. The quality that made him a top 10 pick is his burst off the line which is pretty unheard of for a guy his size and shape. He's a 3-down NT which as far as I knew wasn't previously a thing. So even though his ability to anchor isn't what makes him special, and I will even agree that Pickett is the more impossible of the two to move, Raji is still a stud in this defense when he's fresh. Daniels is a subpackage player in any defense but a good one. The Jury is certainly out on Perry but players in his mold have been outrageously successful as 3-4 OLB. He can't be ruled a miscast yet. You think there's zero depth because you have a severe case of amnesia when it comes to realizing we're perennially injured. Our depth has been starting.

Dude, good depth is Lou Gehrig - Frank Zombo?? Francios?? Brad Jones?? Lattimore??

Throw on top of that pedestrian starters like AJ Hawk and CJ Wilson??

And the miscast toys that are the starters??

Add it all up and you have a mess.

If you made the argument that Capers has to put lipstick on a pig - I'd agree with you; but then you'd have to agree to indict TT for not providing talent - which of course you won't do either!!!

It's one of the two - or a combination of both; but I don't know how Packer fans can look at our front seven and give TT and Capers an "attaboy".

In your scenario the offense didn't achieve its objective which is to score. It was a prevent defense with as much speed on the field as we could muster. Terrible example of a poor Capers play call, although they certainly exist.

This is strategy 101 stuff...

Seattle's goal was not to score in that situation - their goal was to get a 1st down and prevent us from getting the ball back with a short field.

Not that it would have mattered had we got the ball back - Rodgers spent the entire 1st half on his back as McCarthy refused to adjust his playcalling, and Rodgers was sacked an mind numbing 8 times in the 1st half!!!!!

[3irty1]

Dude, good depth is Lou Gehrig - Frank Zombo?? Francios?? Brad Jones?? Lattimore??

Throw on top of that pedestrian starters like AJ Hawk and CJ Wilson??

And the miscast toys that are the starters??

Add it all up and you have a mess.

If you made the argument that Capers has to put lipstick on a pig - I'd agree with you; but then you'd have to agree to indict TT for not providing talent - which of course you won't do either!!!

It's one of the two - or a combination of both; but I don't know how Packer fans can look at our front seven and give TT and Capers an "attaboy".




This is strategy 101 stuff...

Seattle's goal was not to score in that situation - their goal was to get a 1st down and prevent us from getting the ball back with a short field.

Not that it would have mattered had we got the ball back - Rodgers spent the entire 1st half on his back as McCarthy refused to adjust his playcalling, and Rodgers was sacked an mind numbing 8 times in the 1st half!!!!!

Hilarious that you require hall of famers for good depth.

I'm not particularly a fan of Capers. Don't know who I'd rather have but I am of the opinion that 2011 is unacceptable regardless of his superbowl winningness. But I also recognize that the defense is going to change and retool this year with the loss of Woodson who was really the cog that made the 2-4 nickel so good in 2010. His abilities near the LOS made the 2-4 play like a 4-3. Not a 4-2 but a 4-3. It was a winning strategy. Him moving on probably means the death of the 2-4 as a legit run defense, not that it has been that for a couple of years now.

Where I'm disagreeing with you is that the players don't fit the scheme. I think they do, I just don't like the scheme. Not since Woodson won DPotY has he really designed a scheme to showcase the best qualities of the best players which is what good coordinators do. TT still gets an attaboy from me.

CJ Wilson is the other 2-gap specialist on this defense. I'm surprised you singled him out. Players like him that play way above their pay grade are the rock of a good roster IMO. I'm with you on AJ Hawk I guess but its not like if he left Green Bay he wouldn't start somewhere else.

[wist43]

Where I'm disagreeing with you is that the players don't fit the scheme. I think they do, I just don't like the scheme. Not since Woodson won DPotY has he really designed a scheme to showcase the best qualities of the best players which is what good coordinators do. TT still gets an attaboy from me.

CJ Wilson is the other 2-gap specialist on this defense. I'm surprised you singled him out. Players like him that play way above their pay grade are the rock of a good roster IMO. I'm with you on AJ Hawk I guess but its not like if he left Green Bay he wouldn't start somewhere else.

Maybe the best way to put it is - we really don't have a scheme. I'm a cheerleader for a base 3-4, but what Capers throws out there certainly isn't that. Maybe call it '5 DB's and a bunch of guys defense'.

TT talked about body type when we switched over a few years ago, but hasn't really followed thru. From that perspective, Carradine is fine pick.

Capers should have been fired this past offseason, but we're stuck with him for another year. I fully expect our defense to pretty much be a repeat of last year - good against poor offenses, and completely overmatched and outcoached against the power playoff teams.

That adds up to Capers being fired - a day for celebration in Packerland!!!

[Bretsky]

Dear Wist....get your ass over there and make some comments about my projected Mock Draft and offer what you would do differently.

BTW, I agree on many of the JAGS you point out

[3irty1]

Maybe the best way to put it is - we really don't have a scheme. I'm a cheerleader for a base 3-4, but what Capers throws out there certainly isn't that. Maybe call it '5 DB's and a bunch of guys defense'.

TT talked about body type when we switched over a few years ago, but hasn't really followed thru. From that perspective, Carradine is fine pick.

Capers should have been fired this past offseason, but we're stuck with him for another year. I fully expect our defense to pretty much be a repeat of last year - good against poor offenses, and completely overmatched and outcoached against the power playoff teams.

That adds up to Capers being fired - a day for celebration in Packerland!!!

What I don't like about Capers' scheme has nothing to do with the personnel. I think he does a good job of getting our best guys on the field even if he doesn't manage to showcase the best players he's pretty good at hiding the shitty ones like Peprah. He's like McCarthy in that the defense is defined by volume. They seem to have infinite plays, wrinkles, and formations and it shows in that they aren't good at any one thing. McCarthy keeps his offense disciplined and modular enough to make it work but Capers has no plan B when the smoke an mirrors isn't working. During the last 10 years the best defense during that span has been Lovie Smith's Bears. When you watch them they are just straight forward cover 2 on nearly every play with different ways to disguise the looks. And since that's all they do they are just plain good at it. I wish Capers at least had that. Something we've run a zillion times and the guys know well enough to play as a gelled unit and to stay out of their own way.

[woodbuck27]

What I don't like about Capers' scheme has nothing to do with the personnel. I think he does a good job of getting our best guys on the field even if he doesn't manage to showcase the best players he's pretty good at hiding the shitty ones like Peprah. He's like McCarthy in that the defense is defined by volume. They seem to have infinite plays, wrinkles, and formations and it shows in that they aren't good at any one thing. McCarthy keeps his offense disciplined and modular enough to make it work but Capers has no plan B when the smoke an mirrors isn't working. During the last 10 years the best defense during that span has been Lovie Smith's Bears. When you watch them they are just straight forward cover 2 on nearly every play with different ways to disguise the looks. And since that's all they do they are just plain good at it. I wish Capers at least had that. Something we've run a zillion times and the guys know well enough to play as a gelled unit and to stay out of their own way.

Yes... a keep it simple 'not complicated /stupid' defense.

I do believe it comes down to talent though. We're not talking any dog and training >>>tricks.

Race horses set to run in the Breeders Cup's are developed from breeding. Any coach can 'only' do so much with inferior talent. It's like anything else. You get what you pay for. Profit results from proper investment and not magical thinking.

Ted Thompson cannot get by 'on cheap'. Bringing back inferior talent gets simply more of your inferior talent.

This developing situation with mega deals for Aaron Rodgers and Clay Matthews will make it even tougher on the man that TT is. That man has to rethink some of his ways.

More water added to coolaid gives you watered down coolaid. Not really yummy.

PACKERS !

[pbmax]

Well, in previous years wist you were for being multiple. So if I take the on its surface inconsistency of wishes for base 3-4 and multiplicity, I would guess you now want a hybrid 3-4, that can run anything from static 3-4 for run expectation to an under 4-3 look for multiple blitzing opportunities. Always with 3 DL.

And while Capers does run that under 4-3 look out there, this is a big gap in the middle. With no safety like Collins and no ILB who can cover TEs, crosses and the like, the middle of the field is desperately vulnerable. And without the combo of Collins speed and recognition, the corners are left with less help deep when there is a single guy back there.

Maybe Jones can be the piece of the puzzle that solves coverage issues inside, but you would think the D coaches would notice him after 4 years. The only thing holding my enthusiasm back for him is the fact that 5 professional coaches aren't trying to get him on the field until 2 other ILBs get knocked out.

So you have to run with the personnel you have and this might get to 3irty1's point; if the personnel come up short in some areas, perhaps less volume and better execution would be the better route. Because execution along stopped Peterson in the playoff game.

The one thing that would make all this work better is pressure, which we saw last year. However it isn't overwhelming pressure and there is a decided lack of effective blitzes.

What this defense needs is a single freak at any of several positions. But since they are drafting late in every round, you have to be careful to manage that risk with getting competent players to perform roles cheaply. Because Rodgers/Matthews/Raji's contracts will not make this any easier.

[Fritz]

Well, in previous years wist you were for being multiple. So if I take the on its surface inconsistency of wishes for base 3-4 and multiplicity, I would guess you now want a hybrid 3-4, that can run anything from static 3-4 for run expectation to an under 4-3 look for multiple blitzing opportunities. Always with 3 DL.

And while Capers does run that under 4-3 look out there, this is a big gap in the middle. With no safety like Collins and no ILB who can cover TEs, crosses and the like, the middle of the field is desperately vulnerable. And without the combo of Collins speed and recognition, the corners are left with less help deep when there is a single guy back there.

Maybe Jones can be the piece of the puzzle that solves coverage issues inside, but you would think the D coaches would notice him after 4 years. The only thing holding my enthusiasm back for him is the fact that 5 professional coaches aren't trying to get him on the field until 2 other ILBs get knocked out.

So you have to run with the personnel you have and this might get to 3irty1's point; if the personnel come up short in some areas, perhaps less volume and better execution would be the better route. Because execution along stopped Peterson in the playoff game.

The one thing that would make all this work better is pressure, which we saw last year. However it isn't overwhelming pressure and there is a decided lack of effective blitzes.

What this defense needs is a single freak at any of several positions. But since they are drafting late in every round, you have to be careful to manage that risk with getting competent players to perform roles cheaply. Because Rodgers/Matthews/Raji's contracts will not make this any easier.

Well put. Whether it's a safety or in ILB or a nose tackle or a DE, this teams needs another difficult-to-account-for defender. I would have added the outside LB to the list, but just as is the case with offensive tackle, I get a little leery of drafting a first or second round guy to compete with other very recent first round picks at the same position. At least if those recent picks are still considered to have a fair amount of upside.

I also agree that simplifying this defense might be a good idea. The deception is all well and good but the execution often seems lacking. You can send the hot dog vendor in on a blitz from the stands but if he gets engulfed by one blocker then what's the difference?

[pbmax]

I also agree that simplifying this defense might be a good idea. The deception is all well and good but the execution often seems lacking. You can send the hot dog vendor in on a blitz from the stands but if he gets engulfed by one blocker then what's the difference?

Running a vast array of schemes might be something you do if personnel make you desperate. I don't think that is the case with the Packers. Despite injuries the defense finished up from the previous year moving into the middle of the pack.

I also don't think they are throwing the kitchen sink at these guys. They play mostly man in the back and occasional zone. Both one and two deep safeties. They can run base, 3-4, nickel and dime personnel as well as psycho. From those fronts they have the cross blitz, fire zones, CB and safety blitzes. Seems perhaps like a big list to you and me, but that's not an enormous package of options in the NFL.

My concern falls in between too much and player concern: why did it take two games of regular season prep against Petersom to get everyone to play the scheme correctly in the playoffs?

[3irty1]

Running a vast array of schemes might be something you do if personnel make you desperate. I don't think that is the case with the Packers. Despite injuries the defense finished up from the previous year moving into the middle of the pack.

I also don't think they are throwing the kitchen sink at these guys. They play mostly man in the back and occasional zone. Both one and two deep safeties. They can run base, 3-4, nickel and dime personnel as well as psycho. From those fronts they have the cross blitz, fire zones, CB and safety blitzes. Seems perhaps like a big list to you and me, but that's not an enormous package of options in the NFL.

My concern falls in between too much and player concern: why did it take two games of regular season prep against Petersom to get everyone to play the scheme correctly in the playoffs?

True the defense was much improved from 2011. I still think Capers runs a gimmicky defense by design which is also evidenced by how badly it breaks when it does break. It breaks beyond game day adjustments.

The personnel is a lot more complicated than you're making it sound. I've seen the 3-4, the big okie and 4-4 split, 4 versions of the 2-4, a 3-3-5, psycho, and 3 versions of the dime. In addition various short yardage packages which never quite look the same because we never have enough healthy defensive lineman. At one point the scheme was defined by zone blitzes from which every combo of 4 and 5 rushers can be sent out of the front 7. That's a shitload of stuff to practice. Especially with the kind of roster turnover we've been having.

[Fritz]

I am not a huge Capers fan, and I'm not really a big 3-4 fan. But that's not because I'm smart and I see things others don't; it's because I grew up in the 70's in the days of great defensive lines (Steelers, Cowboys) and I saw the havoc that could be wreaked.

The three-four seems to require a tremendous amount of self-discipline. You've got to stay in your lane and do your job, even if you think you can make a big play for a loss. That would be hard. But I hope the Packers' coaching staff does a better job of teaching that this year. Just do the job you're supposed to do, be where you're supposed to be, and it'll all work out. Show them film of the three Vikes games, and ask them which one they liked best.

[RashanGary]

I don't know if this was common knowledge, but I didn't know it. I think MM said Derrek Sherrod had another surgery on his leg after last season. Did I hear that right?

[RashanGary]

I'm betting Bakhtiari beats Sherrod for the backup LT spot. He's probably further along physically and not far off mentally having come from good OL coaches.

[gbgary]

I don't know if this was common knowledge, but I didn't know it. I think MM said Derrek Sherrod had another surgery on his leg after last season. Did I hear that right?

that's what he said. caught media by surprise too. said he's doing much better since the second operation.

[rbaloha1]

I'm betting Bakhtiari beats Sherrod for the backup LT spot. He's probably further along physically and not far off mentally having come from good OL coaches.

Bakhtiari is the starting left tackle.

Sherrod's career could be over.