Eddieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[pbmax]

Its funny that I agree with you more than any other poster on PR bar none, but this one point we can't agree. I think the only reason we won the superbowl was James Starks heating up at the right time and the best D GB has seen since Reggie.

Balance is the key.

You cannot win championships without running the ball (and passing).

You cannot play defense without running the ball (and passing).

You cannot win in cold weather without running the ball (and passing).

The greatest weapon in the NFL is a great QB, but if you can't run the ball effectively and play sound D....well, see the playoffs last 2 seasons. Our D bled yards and we were forced to abandon the run too early thus making Rodgers less effective....although I still think he played a great game against the Giants.

I guess we are separated only by what we mean by balance. If you mean number of plays, then we disagree.

If you mean do both competently, so the defense must choose to defend one or the other, I am all for it. So while I find the new RBs and O line fine additions, I would be happy with a running game that simply is good in short yardage and averages around 4 yards a carry. Then the play caller can go nuts.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I view running the ball as something we have to do, not something we should want to do. The better we are at running the ball, the less we'll have to do it. Running is an underdog strategy because it shortens the game. What we should want to do is give the best QB in the NFL the most opportunities to be leverage the fact that he's the best. Running then ball is still crucial to making that possible so I'm thrilled we're finally adjusting to the defenses that have been adjusting to us.

Exactly. And I think Lacey and Franklin will more than give us that. If Sherrod could pan out, I know thats a big if, the online would have two solid tackles, two solid guards, and a semi decent center. The LT position will be the difference in a top 5 and a top 15 offense.

[Gunakor]

and a semi decent center.

We don't have a center at all. We have a semi decent utility backup playing center, but no center.

[mission]

[rbaloha1]

Bob McGinn - SH Crane: I didn't question the pick. I expressed surprise at how the Packers went about deciding to take him. You know, not trading up to insure his selection, then trading down when he was there for them at 55. Those are hard signs that a team isn't overly hepped up about a player. And I can see why GB wouldn't be. Fans tend to gloss over these injuries now, then go nuts later when they're not on the field. But for club officials that manage salary cap and rosters, injuries are as important a factor as there is. Almost the entire league passed Lacy twice. Certainly, GB's medical people read those same X-rays and MRIs. They felt pick 61 was worth the risk. We'll find out in the next few years if they were right.

[Patler]

Bob McGinn - .... Fans tend to gloss over these injuries now, then go nuts later when they're not on the field. But for club officials that manage salary cap and rosters, injuries are as important a factor as there is. Almost the entire league passed Lacy twice. Certainly, GB's medical people read those same X-rays and MRIs. They felt pick 61 was worth the risk. We'll find out in the next few years if they were right.

FANS????

Heck, its the writers like old Bob M. himself who will slam TT as an idiot for ignoring Lacy's injury history if it doesn't work out. In fact, he likes to lace his articles with words like unforgivable, incomprehensible, unfathomable and the like when he references anything that doesn't turn out as well as hoped. Beyond that, he will never let it go either. How many years yet will most articles about the D-line continue to reference Cullen Jenkins and/or Justin Harrell?

[woodbuck27]

you can not run the ball without running the ball.

I get what you mean.

[woodbuck27]

FANS????

Heck, its the writers like old Bob M. himself who will slam TT as an idiot for ignoring Lacy's injury history if it doesn't work out. In fact, he likes to lace his articles with words like unforgivable, incomprehensible, unfathomable and the like when he references anything that doesn't turn out as well as hoped. Beyond that, he will never let it go either. How many years yet will most articles about the D-line continue to reference Cullen Jenkins and/or Justin Harrell?

Yea but..............

[woodbuck27]

We don't have a center at all. We have a semi decent utility backup playing center, but no center.

Then TT has to try to focus on finding one. Maybe?.... even in the 2014 Draft?

In this draft from what I heard him say:

He was focused on drafting fellas that looked the part of... looked like... a WR or an OLB.

" No Dear.... head scratcher not back scratcher."

PACKERS !

[Smidgeon]

I'm pretty sure everytime I read this thread, another "E" is added to the title...

[bobblehead]

I guess we are separated only by what we mean by balance. If you mean number of plays, then we disagree.

If you mean do both competently, so the defense must choose to defend one or the other, I am all for it. So while I find the new RBs and O line fine additions, I would be happy with a running game that simply is good in short yardage and averages around 4 yards a carry. Then the play caller can go nuts.

I have said this many times. You must run the ball effectively and at least 20 times a game (not 15 straight at the end to kill the clock) because:

It wears down a defense. It makes defenders hesitate to honor the run. Teams can't go dime D on first down...or second and 8.

If you wear down a D they get less effective as the game goes on. If they hesitate the OL gets a second to position. If you are lined up standard on 1st and 10 and the D is in nickel, you better punch them in the mouth for 4 yards. If you don't, you better ALWAYS complete that first pass, or else you have to pass against the dime on 2nd and 10 (with a DL that is teeing off).

OK, if the D lines up base all game long you don't have to run the ball 20 times....but that simply won't happen. You must do both effectively and beat the D.

[RashanGary]

I'm with bobblehead. YOu can't just run in on 3rd and short. You have to keep defenses off balance. That means running it part of the time, all of the time. The running game keeps our defense off the field too.

I do think AR needs to pick up the pace a little. I like how quickly he gets to the line. I don't always appreciate how dredgingly long he stays there, tinkering with whatever the F play he wants to be in. Tom Brady and Drew Brees snap it quick a lot. A part of running the ball is our big guys getting a jump on their big guys. If we really want to be balanced, I think we have to spend a little less time tweaking the perfect play, and let our guys go at their guys a little. You can be in the worst fucking run play imaginable, but if nobody is ready for the snap, it's not going to matter. Our guys will get a jump, plow their guys and we'll get yards.

I heard some defenders compare us to N.O. and N.E. They said Brady and Brees keep them off balance more. I'm not saying change the whole system. WE're a different team. But mix it in. 1 in every 5 or 10 make a quick snap, even if you don't like the defense. There's as much benefit to being a step ahead as there is to being in the perfect play. Do a little of both.

[pbmax]

I have said this many times. You must run the ball effectively and at least 20 times a game (not 15 straight at the end to kill the clock) because:

It wears down a defense. It makes defenders hesitate to honor the run. Teams can't go dime D on first down...or second and 8.

If you wear down a D they get less effective as the game goes on. If they hesitate the OL gets a second to position. If you are lined up standard on 1st and 10 and the D is in nickel, you better punch them in the mouth for 4 yards. If you don't, you better ALWAYS complete that first pass, or else you have to pass against the dime on 2nd and 10 (with a DL that is teeing off).

OK, if the D lines up base all game long you don't have to run the ball 20 times....but that simply won't happen. You must do both effectively and beat the D.

Not much of a fan of a set number of plays, base or no. And the idea that D lines get tired playing the run has been debunked pretty thoroughly. Far more exhausting to rush the passer which happens every drop back pass opposed to the occasional run down the field for long, breakaway run.

Teams tend to run better early when its less expected and worse late with a lead when its expected.

Teams that can run at will are probably dominating somewhere along the LOS (or at least on the edges) regardless of level of fatigue.

But I do think running can slow down a pass rush depending on the opponent (some are coming up field no matter what-like the current Giants o the 80s Viking defense).

Its also far less risk for the QB.

And it gives the play caller more options (play action) and if the run is effective, pretty good down and distance which a good offense will capitalize one.

[bobblehead]

And the idea that D lines get tired playing the run has been debunked pretty thoroughly. Far more exhausting to rush the passer which happens every drop back pass opposed to the occasional run down the field for long, breakaway run.

I played OL. I respectively disagree. When I can fire out, grab you and Greco roman you, I will be the less tired of us. If I step back, slide to the side while you bull rush me and I use everything I have to regain balance and slow you down...I am gassed. (for reference see the gravedigger crawling his fat ass up at the end of the superbowl vs. Denver.) If you don't believe me, go out in the yard with your kid. Line up and drive block him. Then step back and stop him from getting past you. Tell me which one fatigues you more. Tell me which one puts you on your ass most often.

As for a set number...well, if a D lines up in base enough, then I reckon you need to run less. This virtually never happens though. Based on how NFL D's lineup I think 20 is a fair measuring stick, but I will concede that if a D gets stubborn, and continues to line up in base while you torch them without going nickel or dime, then you shouldn't run much....and that coach should be fired.

[3irty1]

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