Packers Draft

[RashanGary]

Lacy is in one of the best positions to win O-ROY. There aren't many QB's looking to be in it this year. He could easily be our #1 RB, and rush for over 1,200 yards and a bunch of TD's. Let's not forget, there was a time when Ryan Grant was getting 4.4YPC and 1,200 yards per season. Lacy could have a very big year.

[woodbuck27]

What do you mean by '?'s You count six whats?
You can't discount guys who were on the 53 last year, and still on the roster now, no matter how much you like or dislike them. Especially the guy who started 16 games at LT for us!
They all were, with the exception of Jolly. I probably missed some, these are just guys I'm sure of.

"pre-2010 fourth round and later picks" Guiness

I don't dislike any Packer players Guiness.

Marshall Newhouse was drafted in 2010 Rd. 5 (169) before James Starks, Rd. 6 and CJ Wilson, Rd. 7.

I'm looking at Packers drafted 2009 and back to 2005 and Rd. 4-7 selections. I thought that was clear fr. above Guiness, or your understanding.

Johnny Jolly would be on the list as he was drafted by TT in 2006 Rd. 6 (183). He is one of the six I counted:

Mason Crosby; Desmond Bishop; Brad Jones; TJ Lang; Josh Sitton and Johnny Jolly.

[pbmax]

Why would you not do a trade with a division or conference rival? If its a good idea to move, its a good idea to move regardless of whom the second party is. Except under extraordinary circumstances (early first round when one team wants to be sure its player is there before trading up) you do not know what they will do, so you cannot make an objective judgement whether they will help themselves or not.

But you can make an objective evaluation about whether you need to trade up or down.

The idea that Thompson is aiding the 49ers presupposes one of two things: the trade is bad for the Packers (weakening a 49er rival) or better for the 49ers (strengthening a Packer conference rival).

Its not at all like a FA or RFA situation where a specific player may or may not benefit a rival.

[wist43]

What do you mean by '?'s You count six whats?
You can't discount guys who were on the 53 last year, and still on the roster now, no matter how much you like or dislike them. Especially the guy who started 16 games at LT for us!
They all were, with the exception of Jolly. I probably missed some, these are just guys I'm sure of.

Guiness, I think there have been several debates raging on this topic in other threads - I would argue your list is far too generous - and even off of Woodbuck's list I'd drop Mason Crosby b/c he's a kicker.

It all depends on what your criteria is. If your criteria is that a guy simply make the roster - of course you're going to think TT's mining for bums pays off. He's drafted more players (48) in those rounds than any other team in the NFL.

The Green Bay Packers are the most draftcentric team in the NFL - hands down. The only other means of player procurement, except on rare occassion, is Street FA's. Whom you cannot include in your assessment of TT's late round picks.

That means Tyrone Williams, Shields, EDS, et al... all other Street FA's. You would have signed these guys anyway.

My criteria is that a guy be a legit NFL starter - if you're going to build your team with late round picks and street FA's, don't many of those guys need to be legitimate NFL starters - and necessarily better, i.e. Sitton.

The list is very short - Sitton, Lang, Bishop, Jolly (I include Jolly b/c I love the guy, and he absolutley was a legit NFL starter; but of course he might never play again, we'll see).

That's it... that's the list of TT's bum mining successes in rds 4-7.

You have to take Daniels, McMillian, and House off the list b/c we don't know what those guys are. I think House looks like a hit, but we simply don't know - so they're not considered yet.

I don't include CJ Wilson, Marshall Newhouse, Jurius Wynn, Starks, DJ Smith... they may have started, or are starting - but none of those guys has any business starting in the NFL. If you have them for backups, you're looking to replace them and upgrade. So even though they're playing, I don't consider them legit starters - they are weak links in our lineup that need to be replaced.

We now have 8 years of drafts to look at - it's an ugly, ugly list.

48 guys minus Crosby and the 3 young guys gives you 44 picks to assess. Of those 44, only 4 became legit starters. That comes out to 9.09% hit rate.

[wist43]

We all just spent weeks in pre-draft debates talking about how badly we needed to replace Newhouse, EDS, and CJ Wilson.

You cannot include players like that as hits for TT b/c they are not legitimate staters - the second they're in your lineup, you have a weak link, and you're looking to replace them... maybe they're backups, but if you're sole means of player procurement is the draft and street FA's - you need to be hitting on more than 9%

TT's hits - legitmate, NFL starter hits - are Sitton, Lang, Bishop, and Jolly - and that's it. Everyone else needed, or needs to be moved off the roster b/c they are not legitimate starter material.

As I said in the longwinded post, we can't consider Daniels, McMillian and House yet, b/c we don't know if they'll make it or not. I suspect House is a hit.

[SnakeLH2006]

TT drafts well. Snake can't complain. He's drinking....just got laid...gets laid tomorrow morn. TT gets a dude. He pans out. Packers win games. Snake gets laid with more hot girls. Packers play games. TT drafts and picks up street FA's. Snake keeps getting laid. Packers win games. People argue. Snake gets laid and makes girls happy. TT drafts well...Packer fans are happy. Packer fans argue when they win. Snake keeps getting laid. TT keeps drafting good players. Packers win and lose. Life goes on. Everyone wins. Fans are happy. Girls are happy. Snake is happy. Wist just keeps getting pissed and more cynical. Snake is a happy man...and happy Packer fan. TT is awesome. LMFAO.

[Pugger]

I don't have that sense about McCarthy. I think that, everything else being equal, he would prefer balanced to pass-heavy. Here is an anecdote: I was just watching replays of last year's games against Jacksonville, Arizona and at Detroit, all three of which were very mediocre showings by the offense. In all three he started out running Green and Starks fairly often, and the results were remarkably consistent: 2 yard run to the right, 2 yard run to the left, pass (incompletion), punt. 4 yard run left, -2 yard run right, incompletion, punt. With a more productive running game, the Packers will have longer, more efficient drives and will give themselves even more chances to run the ball. Not to mention what it will do for the play action passing.

The success of this draft will depend on Jones's development as a three-down defensive lineman and on Lacy's long-term health. If you really think any of the pundits can predict those better than TT, Woodbuck, try taking a look at the grades he received in the 2009 draft, which is probably the best the Packers have done since Wolf's 1995 monster draft.

Often last year we didn't run the ball because the results stunk. Once Benson learned the offense and ran with authority - but not a lot of speed unfortunateley - MM was giving him the rock until he broke his foot. When Harris came on the scene and produced he got his chances too. I will say I was pissed at MM for abandoning the run game against SF in that awful playoff game. I'd wager MM was all in with TT when it came to drafting these 2 backs in this draft.

[Pugger]

Then why did Deuce McAllister average 21 carries a game for McCarthy over 3 years in New Orleans?

McCarthy is all about BALANCE in his offense. The issue is that the talent at RB given to him by Thompson over the last 2-3 years has been PATHETIC. No one in their right mind would run very often with the crap backs we were trotting out there. When Cedric Benson comes in and looks like Jim Brown compared to everyone else, you know your RBs suck balls.

This big time.

[Pugger]

Actually Woody, I think you made his point for him.

There are quite a number of pre-2010 fourth round and later picks on the team. Off the top of my head, both our starting guards, Newhouse and EDS! Crosby and Mathsay, as well as Goode, the LS. Bishop and Brad Jones. Bush and Tramon. Let's see, Jolly if he comes back, Starks, Kuhn, CJ Wilson. Not sure if Wynn is still on the roster.

TT does have a knack for finding good players in later rounds that other GMs pass on. He also finds gems in UDFAs so I wasn't all that worried about having Ted picking several players on Saturday.

[pbmax]

48 guys minus Crosby and the 3 young guys gives you 44 picks to assess. Of those 44, only 4 became legit starters. That comes out to 9.09% hit rate.

Its a wonder they win any games at all with only 4 legit starters. Stunning really. McCarthy must be the League's best coach working with a handicap like that.

[denverYooper]

Its a wonder they win any games at all with only 4 legit starters. Stunning really. McCarthy must be the League's best coach working with a handicap like that.

Why else do you think Rodgers and CM3 became the highest paid at position?

[denverYooper]

[3irty1]

Haha I was thinking about this exact scene last week.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Its a wonder they win any games at all with only 4 legit starters. Stunning really. McCarthy must be the League's best coach working with a handicap like that.

And Capers must be a genius of a DC with what he's been given to work with. Guess wist acknowledges how good the coaching staff is after all.

[Ballboy]

Then why did Deuce McAllister average 21 carries a game for McCarthy over 3 years in New Orleans?

McCarthy is all about BALANCE in his offense. The issue is that the talent at RB given to him by Thompson over the last 2-3 years has been PATHETIC. No one in their right mind would run very often with the crap backs we were trotting out there. When Cedric Benson comes in and looks like Jim Brown compared to everyone else, you know your RBs suck balls.

I am not sure what MM did 10 years ago has to do with the past years with GB.....but I would venture to guess whomever the QB was(I dont think Drew got there till 2005ish) he wasnt even close to a legit QB.....I would run the ball 21 times per game as well.

The fact is drafting an OL wouldve helped on two fronts, one pass protection and two hopefully a better run blocker.