Packers Draft

[run pMc]

I think TT's draft record is pretty good, and using a starters from rounds 4-7 is a little squishy. Most people expect R1-3 picks to be starters...you might get a few starters from your late picks, but if your starting lineup is full of late round picks and UDFA's, you probably have a serious talent problem. Maybe we move the criteria: How many starts out of late picks makes you a success?
TT got also starts from guys who aren't on the team anymore like Whitticker, Moll, Colledge, Matt Flynn, Korey Hall, Deshawn Wynn. On defense he got starts from guys like D.J.Smith, Jarius Wynn and a few others I know I'm forgetting. Desmond Bishop, who hopefully stays with the team, was a later round pick.

Expecting your R6 pick (for example) to become a Pro Bowler is asking a lot IMO. Think of all the other players drafted ahead of them in that year alone, never mind all the veterans on rosters. I'd be happy if one of the R7 WRs pans out as a ok #3 or good #4 WR, but I don't expect either to replace Calvin Johnson in the Pro Bowl in the next 3 years. Hitting on a late round player like Marques Colston or (especially) a Tom Brady is an extreme rarity.

Flip it around and think of who TT has drafted: Rodgers, Matthews, Raji, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Sitton , Bulaga,... without his drafting acumen there wouldn't have been a SB parade in 2010.

[Gunakor]

I am not sure what MM did 10 years ago has to do with the past years with GB.....but I would venture to guess whomever the QB was(I dont think Drew got there till 2005ish) he wasnt even close to a legit QB.....I would run the ball 21 times per game as well.

The fact is drafting an OL wouldve helped on two fronts, one pass protection and two hopefully a better run blocker.

Aaron Brooks was their QB at the time, and it was the only time in Brooks' career he did look legit. He stunk on ice his entire career except the time he spent working with MM.

[Gunakor]

I think TT's draft record is pretty good, and using a starters from rounds 4-7 is a little squishy. Most people expect R1-3 picks to be starters...you might get a few starters from your late picks, but if your starting lineup is full of late round picks and UDFA's, you probably have a serious talent problem. Maybe we move the criteria: How many starts out of late picks makes you a success?
TT got also starts from guys who aren't on the team anymore like Whitticker, Moll, Colledge, Matt Flynn, Korey Hall, Deshawn Wynn. On defense he got starts from guys like D.J.Smith, Jarius Wynn and a few others I know I'm forgetting. Desmond Bishop, who hopefully stays with the team, was a later round pick.

Expecting your R6 pick (for example) to become a Pro Bowler is asking a lot IMO. Think of all the other players drafted ahead of them in that year alone, never mind all the veterans on rosters. I'd be happy if one of the R7 WRs pans out as a ok #3 or good #4 WR, but I don't expect either to replace Calvin Johnson in the Pro Bowl in the next 3 years. Hitting on a late round player like Marques Colston or (especially) a Tom Brady is an extreme rarity.

Flip it around and think of who TT has drafted: Rodgers, Matthews, Raji, Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Sitton , Bulaga,... without his drafting acumen there wouldn't have been a SB parade in 2010.

Wist is upset that we traded down out of round 3 rather than getting a 3rd starter. He's just presenting it from the perspective of the number of starters we've drafted in the rounds we accumulated picks in rather than just saying directly that we could have had a starter in round 3 had we not traded out of it. I thought TT could have gotten an actual center there, for example, and I'm a bit apprehensive going into the season with EDS as the starter and rookie JC Tretter as his backup. It's a legitimate complaint.

[run pMc]

As for the run/pass balance, I hope the Lacy/Franklin/Harris stable works out and presents a credible running game. I could see Lacy being the guy they give snaps in Q1 to soften up and Q4 to wear down teams, and Franklin/Harris get the remainder. Harris was successful because he wasn't hurt, he was small enough to hide behind his blockers (which combined with his quickness, gave him a step on defenses), and his running style.
The running game improved later in the year because of Harris, but also because they benched Saturday and Lang was moved back to LG, bad elbow and all. I don't know if Barclay is a better run blocker than Bulaga.

[run pMc]

I'm a bit apprehensive going into the season with EDS as the starter and rookie JC Tretter as his backup. It's a legitimate complaint.

I agree it's a concern. Ostensibly the list of C's in the league is so 'meh' that Saturday got a NFC Pro Bowl nod despite being benched. (For the record, I think the Vikings have a good one in John Sullivan.) I think TT brought in Tretter and a couple of UDFA's (e.g., the Lewis guy from TexasA&M) to give EDS competition, but this is a gamble that could backfire. EDS has at least some experience at C, and Rodgers is a fan so I think he'll be ok.

[Pugger]

Wist is upset that we traded down out of round 3 rather than getting a 3rd starter. He's just presenting it from the perspective of the number of starters we've drafted in the rounds we accumulated picks in rather than just saying directly that we could have had a starter in round 3 had we not traded out of it. I thought TT could have gotten an actual center there, for example, and I'm a bit apprehensive going into the season with EDS as the starter and rookie JC Tretter as his backup. It's a legitimate complaint.

TT did find a jewel RG in Sitton in a later round and you also can find decent centers later on.

[3irty1]

Some pretty flawed logic going on in this thread. I can't believe it even needs to be said but how on Earth are some of you entertaining the idea that you need to be a starter to warrant a draft pick and everyone outside of your core of probowl players needs to be moved off the roster? After 3 years of being decimated by injuries you guys really want to put more eggs in less baskets? Completely detached from reality. Guys like Newhouse and Starks have gotten us out of some pretty important games including a superbowl. A 53 man roster only carries 22 starters, the rest are backups and/or role players and/or in development and/or special teamers. There is a salary cap and we just lost a former 2nd round pick because of it. Had we not lost another to a career ending injury we'd be losing another. The thought that we can fill the entire 53 man roster with players like that is a sensationally alarmist steaming pile of lie turds.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Lacy is in one of the best positions to win O-ROY. There aren't many QB's looking to be in it this year. He could easily be our #1 RB, and rush for over 1,200 yards and a bunch of TD's. Let's not forget, there was a time when Ryan Grant was getting 4.4YPC and 1,200 yards per season. Lacy could have a very big year.

I think Lacey will have a very big year also and will by far be TT best pick in this past draft. I'm still not sure how he fell to 61 and I'm kind of surprised TT didn't jump on him at 55. We will remember what it feels like to actually have a work horse a running back again.

[wist43]

TT did find a jewel RG in Sitton in a later round and you also can find decent centers later on.

You might able to find a decent center "later on"... but TT can't - b/c he's never drafted one.

[pbmax]

Wist is upset that we traded down out of round 3 rather than getting a 3rd starter. He's just presenting it from the perspective of the number of starters we've drafted in the rounds we accumulated picks in rather than just saying directly that we could have had a starter in round 3 had we not traded out of it. I thought TT could have gotten an actual center there, for example, and I'm a bit apprehensive going into the season with EDS as the starter and rookie JC Tretter as his backup. It's a legitimate complaint.

Its a legitimate complaint but the numbers used to judge rounds 4-7 (and back up the claim that Thompson made a mistake) are not. You can make the case that the players available at Center in Round 3 were better, but Thompson has consistently outperformed Rats who look at the draft simply to fill needs. Outside of the 2012 draft with everyone agreeing when Thompson went big on defense and pass rush*, everyone on this board looking at his drafts based on their perception of team needs found his choices terrible (Collins in 2nd round [value concern], Jennings in Round 2 [Chad Jackson!], Nelson [why another WR], Matthews [need but over drafted], Sherrod [another tackle?], etc.

Drafting for needs is a suckers bet and always trading up is a bad risk management strategy. Though it is far more manageable if you start the draft with 12 picks.

Claiming its a near impossibility to find a starter at Center in those rounds is a little nuts. Just remember when Scott Wells was drafted.

Listing team needs as Left Tackle, Center and a DE and then declaring the draft approach a bust because those positions weren't the picks in the first three rounds is also a fools errand. You have to draft talent and then find starters among your own players.

The only way to replicate the 49er roster is to be bad for a decade and collect a ton of high picks. If you get a good coach, you get the 49ers or Seahawks. If you get a bad coach you get the Lions.


* By the way, that draft, where everyone loved the focus on needs? Produced two of the misfits that are currently giving McGinn and Rats heartburn about the defense's toughness and size. Its a strange world where the team deviates from its normal mode of operation and is congratulated publicly. Until the team has a bad result in the following season and now that draft is a sign of things going off the rails.

Then, team returns to drafting form, and once again are castigated for ignoring needs in the 3rd round. Fascinating.

[3irty1]

You might able to find a decent center "later on"... but TT can't - b/c he's never drafted one.

If Coston doesn't count then he's never drafted a guard either. Most of his picks were college left tackles. Sitton was a right tackle for a left handed QB.

[wist43]

I seriously wonder if you homers are capable of critical and logical thinking??

IF YOUR ONLY MEANS OF PLAYER PROCUREMENT IS THE DRAFT AND STREET FA'S - GUESS WHAT?? YOUR ROSTER IS GOING TO BE FULL OF THOSE GUYS... DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN PLAY, OR THAT THEY BELONG IN THE LINEUP. TT HAS DRAFTED 4 GUYS WHO BELONG IN AN NFL LINEUP - 4, AND THAT'S IT.

You can't count Newhouse and players like him, b/c they don't belong in the starting lineup. Does Will Witticker count?? He started 1 full season!! Had no business starting, but the position was so weak, that he was the best we had.

In the salary cap era, the roster is necessarily going to be full of minimum wage, developmental projects - that would just as true if TT actually worked to move up in the draft and draft quality players with a legitimate shot at becoming a legit starter.

Other teams find starters thru trades and FA - we don't have those avenues avenues available to us. So, if we only have 1 avenue available to us - we better be hitting on more than 4 out of 44.

[wist43]

If Coston doesn't count then he's never drafted a guard either. Most of his picks were college left tackles. Sitton was a right tackle for a left handed QB.

Yeah, and how has that worked out??

Every year we have one of the shakiest, most underpowered offensive lines in the league. Since TT and MM have arrived, our offensive line has been a mess; and as I pointed out in another thread, the only time during TT's tenure we had any semblance of stability was when Clifton and Wells were still here - both of whom TT inherited. After they left, the line went from average, to being one of the worst lines in the league.

TT always drafts "versatility" as opposed to just drafting a guy that can fill the position. If you need a C, can we please at least draft a C?? TT's answer to that is question is always NO - we must draft a guy who can maybe play center - the TT way.

And you guys wonder why Rodgers is always running for his life??

[3irty1]

Its worked out for us awesome at both guard spots. Actually the only guy playing where he played in college is Marshall Newhouse

[pbmax]

I seriously wonder if you homers are capable of critical and logical thinking??

IF YOUR ONLY MEANS OF PLAYER PROCUREMENT IS THE DRAFT AND STREET FA'S - GUESS WHAT?? YOUR ROSTER IS GOING TO BE FULL OF THOSE GUYS... DOESN'T MEAN THEY CAN PLAY, OR THAT THEY BELONG IN THE LINEUP. TT HAS DRAFTED 4 GUYS WHO BELONG IN AN NFL LINEUP - 4, AND THAT'S IT.

You can't count Newhouse and players like him, b/c they don't belong in the starting lineup. Does Will Witticker count?? He started 1 full season!! Had no business starting, but the position was so weak, that he was the best we had.

In the salary cap era, the roster is necessarily going to be full of minimum wage, developmental projects - that would just as true if TT actually worked to move up in the draft and draft quality players with a legitimate shot at becoming a legit starter.

Other teams find starters thru trades and FA - we don't have those avenues avenues available to us. So, if we only have 1 avenue available to us - we better be hitting on more than 4 out of 44.

Wil Whitticker was a seventh round choice and got the job by default when the FA they signed and the backup they hoped would improve both fell apart. He was a bad match for the offense as can happen in the seventh round. He got one camp to adjust. The team went 4-12.

Newhouse was a fifth round pick who had 2 camps and one reg season as a Pro with some playing time and occasional start before he was given the starting job outright. He has limitations but the core area of competency for his offense (pass blocking) is his skill strength. The team went 11-5.

Newhouse is eminently replaceable. But he isn't a tire fire like Whitticker. Newhouses strengths and weaknesses are magnified and hidden respectively by his team's offense. They are not the same player, not the same fit nor the same talent level. You can get by with Newhouse while you wait for you depth to get better/healthier or a draftee to come along and claim the job.