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Originally posted by Carolina_Packer
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Isn't it pretty clear that he thinks guys should be groomed for their most natural position and the backups should be backing up a limited range instead of shuffling 3 guys for one injury? I mean, I don't agree with wist on most of this, but I think his actual opinion to the way it aught to be is pretty crystal clear.The only time success comes before work is in the dictionary -- Vince Lombardi -
I'm curious as to how you define success here.Originally posted by woodbuck27 View PostSimple ..... you look closely how another franchise has done it. Managed to reach a clear success. ie The San Francisco 49ers RE: the OL. You learn from other's success. You don't try to re-write the book. You cast all ego aside and study and understand and look at what you have and in a certain time frame make the blueprint and find the parts that fits it.
It's no different than 'life', and developing 'life skills'.
WOW >>>that's fine ! >>>That works>>What do I have to change>>> to get there?
Design>>procure>>develop>>>succeed.
Celebrate ! >>> Laugh alot.
PACKERS !"Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg JenningsComment
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Ya afraid to hang out with the uncool kids??Originally posted by bobblehead View Post
Some teams value the trenches, the Packers do not - they value T's, but not interior linemen... I should think that obvious.
They value T's on the offensive line, and are perpetually trying to make college tackles into pro guards and center. They've never drafted a center, and even though many of the tackles they've drafted were projected to guard, and I don't mind that per se, the fact is the Packers will not outright draft a guard or center. The Packers would never consider drafting a Chance Warmack or Jonathon Cooper in the 1st round.
We don't have any drive blockers, and rarely call power running plays. Our guards have size, but their strength is zone blocking and pass protection (which really isn't very good either) - as a result, our team is viewed as being soft.
It's not as if I'm the only one making this argument - it's obvious enough to many, that the question gets posed to TT and MM from time to time. They of course always dismiss it, but when you pass on size, for the smallest OT in the draft - what are we supposed to make of that??
We were pushed around by stronger, more physical teams last year - it was hard to watch.wistComment
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Wist, excellent points.
Remember we are running wco that relies more on nimble linemen than maulers. Generally zbs and screen teams require linemen that can get to the second level.
Lacy will give us the identity of a power running team with finese linemen LOL! Persian guy is a finisher and TT did bring in a blocking te.
Agree about the pain of watching packer linemen getting dominated at the point of attack which some posters continually dismiss.Comment
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That definition is centered on the following mj:Originally posted by MJZiggy View Post
The San Francisco 49ers RE: the OL. You learn from other's success.
The San Fran 49er have a premier OL. How did the 49ers achieve that Rep. as having such a top OL?
That might be TT's focus and in terms of improving our OL.
So my definition of success here would be:
A recognized significant level of achievement, based in certan criteria of result (s) pertaining to a focused goal (s). ... Success
One of TT goals might sensably be to get MM and the OL coach the talented people on the roster that demonstrate a large improvement in protecting Aaron Rodgers. Has he done that in this off season?
Nope...He's taken a half hearted swipe at getting in some more people for 'competition' on the OL As Packer fans we cannot expect that those two young men he drafted in Rd. 4 of this last draft will mean the difference.
Success will be measured in significantly less QB SACKs.
TT would acquire the proper talent to give the team's OL, a real shot at achieving success. Recognition of that via measurement. ie TT wants QB SACKS reduced by a minimum 33%.
That goal cannot be reached or 'success' attained. Unless he takes specific action. mj TT needs to get a solid LT. TT needs to find a Pro Bowl Center again. TT ignored the Center position in his last draft. That was neglegence on his part. The best he did for the team was 'possibly'; acquire via the draft in Rd. 4 picks for depth.
TT knows that our OL needs improvement at the LT spot. TT knows generally that the Packers OL isn't doing a proper job protecting the QB. TT's style in this draft was like swinging at shadows.
Alot of whiffs at and more...nothing.
PACKERS !Last edited by woodbuck27; 05-04-2013, 10:36 PM.** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. ThoreauComment
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Niners have a different offensive system that emphasizes power running. The niners draft the correct linemen to match their system (i.e Iuapti, Staley, etc.)Originally posted by woodbuck27 View Post
It could be argued the Packers do not always the correct o-linemen for MM's system.Comment
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Originally posted by woodbuck27 View Post
Because they sucked bad for so many years they had a long string of top draft picks![QUOTE=George Cumby] ...every draft (Ted) would pick a solid, dependable, smart, athletically limited linebacker...the guy who isn't doing drugs, going to strip bars, knocking around his girlfriend or making any plays of game changing significance.Comment
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Smart Boy Swede !!Originally posted by swede View Post
Because they sucked bad for so many years they had a long string of top draft picks!
You receive points for that response. That response answers 'certainly' ... a part of the question. That response is a contribution.
'Often' the best indicator of a resolution to change your direction is failure>>>more failure should certainly get the attention you deserve.
This in terms of football and Packer football:
To look clearly at any part of the team. Examine that part i.e. the OL or DL and ** tear it down...build over if and where that's determined as necessary.
In terms of the focus of this thread...or 'the Packers Offensive Line'. The Green Bay Packers and MM's plans to 'again' shuffle his deck.The deck that his esteemed GM,Ted Thompson has provided him. **
That's what the San Fran 49ers certainly have done /are doing... all over their roster in terms of positions. With the added challenge of better ensuring a successful future. Not just on their OL. Right now that team is the new model of how to manage for success.
The Green Bay Packers don't even appear to be addressing the problem. It certainly appears as if Ted Thompson is perfectly content with the status quo. How and why that's the case is not my place as a Packer fan to even really try to understand. I just simply accept that Ted Thompson is a very strange/an eccentric man.
Does Ted Thompson study the San Fran 49ers as I do? You know the 'keep your friends close... your enemies closer', sorta thing.
The measure of 'the success' of that team's (San Fran 49er's) resolution and action. Has been far more than how that team handles the Green Bay Packers; and that obviously ... easily.The real measure of the San Fran 49ers success is the dynamic process of winning the next Super Bowl.That remains to be seen; yet certainly appears imminent with any fairness in terms of adversity in the back of their minds.
What we're seeing in the Green Bay Packers over the course of the last two seasons. Is a direction 'polor opposite'... in terms of success Vs the San Fran 49ers.
It amazes me that serious Packer fans don't see that.
As I've posted before. Too many Packer fans. Those as passionate as I am over the Green Bay Packers. Have a far different emotional bent in terms of 'anything Packers and success'. These fans are too easy to spot. The Packer fans that defend the direction and 'status quo' of the Green Bay Packers with 'juvenile or snide responses. A clearly negative recourse or counter productive to real success and how that's achieved. In their blind loyalty such response is nothing more than destructive. It adds nothing positive to the discussion.
I'm too polite to post right back:
Thanks a bunch ....and now please...take a hike. Ignorance will always have it's place in our free society.
Thes acker fans are perplexing and consistent. They can be counted on to remain stagnated. Defend any criticism (s) no matter to what degree based on sound observation and measurement with:
Stuff like....Wern't you around when the Green Bay Packers won Supwer Bowl XLV? I want to immediately respond. How old are you? In my book. Such responses 'only' demonstrate a flaw in that person. That flaw may merely be related to immaturity and not at all anything to do with a rotten attitude or silly arrogance.
Yet common sense weighs in on all of that ...until the ...GIANT LEAP... phfffftt ... screw that silly Packer fan. That fan is like a persistent deer fly, on an otherwise wonderful day, fishing a perfect trout stream. You simply keep brushing it away. You center focus on catching bigger older trout.
My feelings and anything like that is to want to respond something like ..."and what has that got to do with anything Green Bay Packers and 2011-12?"
Frankly... why return such response to any man/woman that points to ... lives in Green Bay Packer past. Is Super Bowl XLV 'a measure of success now/today' !? To even offer that simple rebuttal to such Packer fans. Would in all likelihood be a waste of effort. Added to that, a possible burden of certain frustration.
Nope...I simply brush the pest away...politely 'of course'.
I've learned this a long time ago.
You can never contend with arrogance or ignorance. Add any stubborness to that and you've got certain trouble. All the same I worry about such Packer fans. I worry because their not helping today. Those Packer fans contribute 'only' towords one thing>>> more acceptance of failure in their delusions/blindness. Those fans are simple and content to live in the past. Such people are all too common.
People like Wist43 and I are by far 'a minority'. It takes proper attention to being accurate in analysis and dedicated to insightfulness and caring. Courageous enough to issue the report to the deluded to join our cause. A cause for which we will be attacked as a gurantee. Attacks that we are strong enough to deal with.
The 'yea sayers' see... are actually the 'nay sayers'. They cannot possibly even see just how badly their beloved Green bay Packers arev slipping and that being definitely the case since Super Bowl XLV.Thank Goodness for them and their bottom line... without any recourse towords 'simply' thinking:
They can always turn to responses pointing to the past. Super Bowl XLV. Which excuse me...frankly, is merely cute... hardly helpful.
My arguments are clearly centered on one value. The good of the Green Bay Packers. I'm every Packer fans 'BEST FRIEND'. So by the way is Wist43.
I admire Wist43 as more than 'just' a very solid poster.
He's...well yes ...'the Moses of Packerrats'
If Wist43 is Moses then...am I Aaron?
He and I are about today/tomorrow and nothing to do with any tiring reference to past success. Ancient Green Bay Packer history in terms of success and the 2013 season has zero relevency.
Super Bowl XLV was just wonderful and long gone. I want to determine what happened since then and ask questions and get right down to why? Why 'the Green Bay Packers' are now 'door mats' for the best NFL teams.
Yes ... remember this with pride. I do so with all four Super Bowls. I do so experienceing those wins as a Packer fan. Yet as a realist and today. All four wins are .....history....gone. We cannot succeed living in our pasts. Pasts that are both good and bad. To get to tomorrow 'smiling'. We need to examine the now. Do so clearly/honestly. Where necessary and after a constant effort to see misdirection...change ...fix it.
Evaluate it...fix it....focus all attention on goal setting and measurement. Is that fixed yet?
Super Bowl XLV. Lovely and OLD.
That success has little to do with today in terms of how the Green bay Packers have performed Vs solid NFL teams. Against teams that easily take the Green Bay Packers 'down town'. Against teams that frankly...embarrass 'the Green Bay Packers'.
The reason for this is simple to diagnose. It's been before you on Packerrats.The reasons...Ted Thompson surely has access to such information. I'm actually informed here that Ted Thompson has superior information than I may gleen as a mere Packer fan.
If that's the TRUTH ..what in hell is he doing with that superior information but little to nothing. Another announcement by the Green Bay Packers HC Mike McCarthy that again the Packer Offensive line will be re-shuffled.
Well whoopi doo. Let the bells chime !! Isn't that 'just great'. That great ...isn't very likely to solve very much Packer fans that's centered on OL and success.
Sorry for the news.
This news proves clearly to me that:
I assume too much and Ted Thompson !?? Ted Thompson and NOT fixing the Packers OL. Evidence of that being 'a fact' or TRUTH is clearly in evidence by MM's anouncement of this shuffle.
Old underwear is just that ... old underwear. Sometime you need to toss it and shop for and purchase new.
How would you fix the Packer OL problems? Those problems are certainly as we all should know/realize as BIG. How should Ted Thompson finallly get down to task and Fix our well below average Offensive Line? Would you sincerely hope to do that with the Packers currently on the roster? If you respond in the affirmative.
Count yourself as one of the deluded.
Somehow may 'the force' be with thee.
It sure was that ... and Super Bowl XLV. Sometimes the most improbable things ... happen to the most improbable beneficiary (any NFL Team) In this case or specific reference..... the Green bay Packers. .
As my Dear Mom often advised...
"Edwin...always find somewhere in your heart 'a blessing' for the less gifted, the less fortunate."
We all exist to somehow negatively or positively and hopefully, ultimately serve one another to make this a better world. We're like the ingredients of an especially good soup...a contribution of sorts.
GO PACK GO !Last edited by woodbuck27; 05-05-2013, 06:54 AM.** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. ThoreauComment
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In this thread we're focusing on the Packers OL. It's become a mess.
Hopefully we can discuss the other mess that's the Packers DL. Lots to be concerned about there. Well actually... Wist43 is keeping Y'all up to speed on that.
Worthy; Daniels; Raji; Wilson; Neal and Miller.That mix and lots going on. Pickett and aging and soon retiring!? >>> More concern.
New blood and this draft and 'just drafting', isn't going to fix all that's necessary to fix on the lines, in terms of 'anytime soon'. A real fix will take patience but when will it really ever get stated?
If you'd care to look into grading and the PFF... Pro Football Focus Way... here's a LINK:
For what it may be worth...Regarding the Green Bay Packer Needs Analysis I'll add this LINK Fr. the same site:
I'm going to post this information. So at least all Packerrats may possibly be focused on 'the facts'... or 'the down and dirty', and the Packers Offensive Line ( OL ).
Which is 'of course' strictly speaking/thinking...is offensive. Any
to any of you? This post will then... if that's the case.... enlighten you.
In lay terms the Green Bay Packers Offensive Line 'is very bad'. It's that way because of a lack of decent talent on the roster. I'm positive it's not anything to do with coaching, that limited talent.
The Packers Offensive Line fails in terms of certain basic needs:
A) Protecting the teams QB...and we should all clearly see this:
Aaron Rodgers and his over cautious tendencies...holding on and on and on to the damn ball too long...doesn't help himself. That man is going to seriously with that way ...hurt himself.
Aaron Rodgers is too much the Anti-FAVRE and that to his own destuction. He's hardly the exciting gunslinger. He's not creative.
B) The Packers OL fails terribly in 'the running game'.
Again the reason is clearly in the Packer roster for OL ...'no talent'. Ted Thompson cannot find a decent Big man on the OL and the DL inspite of all he's done, trying to do just that. Ted Thompson's record and 'Big Men' and his drafting skill are well... sadly pathetic.
Ted thompson hit a homer bringing Ryan Pickett to the Packers but overall he's stubborn to FA unless a man will sacrifice all ego in terms of compensation.
I read 'the sighs and the what if's' and that isn't going to cut it in terms of an answer. Yes his picks have gone south in terms of health or injury.
So I say>>> cut to the chase Ted. Don't be so fricken' slow >>> to the drawing board. Stop waiting and waiting, because waiting isn't helping the Packer coaching staff in terms of talented personnel on the roster. Talent proper and decent enough to mold an efficient OL.
Smarten up...wake up Ted Thompson. Please...anyone.
His efforts >>> no efforts....and the OL.
If TT has to be so fricken EGO Draft ECCENTRIC and ignore the fruits of FA or even a trade option. He has to strictly focus on the Packers OL and DL. Not accumulating picks for LB and WR from obscure Colleges. TT cannot afford such nonsence at the sacrifice of higher picks. He cannot waste luxury picks. He certainly shouldn't give such away to his worst enemy...the San Fran 49ers.
Frankly... after what I've seen in this off season. Ted Thompson has in my view gone for a really long snack. When will he ever truly come out of his cave?
I'm just plain and simple sick of his invisability and silly ass nonsence and more picks for prospects that won't contribute to the Packers basic needs.
Ted Thompson is on such a level, and seriously close to being deemed, 'out to lunch' ... it's really sad. I like Ted Thompson and can't help wonder, even be concerned over what up with that man?
That man ...the Green Bay Packer GM....... surely... has access to this stuff:
That stuff is in Ted Thompson's face ....accurate. What's he ever...ever...ever going to do about it? Based on his past>>>little to nothing. Ted's way is like geting people to move into a house when the roof is worn out.... leaking and in general disrepair.
First do what >>> needs to be first. If it's just the DRAFT Ted. Draft for the need that is>>> the priority need. Poor Ted obviously doesn'r even recognize that need. He imagines that solving a running game in the NFL is accomplished by drafting a solid prospect from the college game that set up behind an awesome College Offensive Line.
Message to Ted Thompson:
Ohh that RB you drafted in round two. Eddie Lacy....right. Not a bad move but well except for 'just maybe' this. It's simply a ...'by the way', Ted.
Eddie Lacy's Alabama Crimson Tide's Offensive Line incuded a versatile offensive lineman named Barrett Jones that you ignored last week in the draft. and ...Ohh Ted...who did you draft at center? Surely your going to eventually get around too fixing the issue that was created when you allowed your once Pro Bowl Center, Scott Wells to walk in Free Agency?
Ted? Ted?? ... Ohh.................Ted?
Ohh fellow Packerrats...Don't even imagine trying ... to lace me with any silly ass propoganda to refute such information.
That information shouts ALARM !!
ALARM and NEGLECT !!!
Please .....give us all here some decent ideas as to what TT has to finally get around to doing .....to fix the OL... just that please.
woodbuck27Last edited by woodbuck27; 05-05-2013, 09:47 AM.** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. ThoreauComment
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Rodgers not the anti-Favre. Only anti-Favre the Older. Favre the Younger was very much the textbook definition of holding the ball too long. Neither liked to throw the ball away. Favre used to make ill-advised throws at the end of holding the ball too long, Rodgers takes the sack.
Number of Playoff appearances in the last decade: San Francisco 2 (its 4 if you go back 12 years)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Green Bay 7 (its 9 if you go back 12 years)
Super Bowl wins in last decade:
San Fran: 0
Packers: 1
There are two first round picks who SHOULD be starting on the O line and barring a broken leg, would be starting for the Packers.
San Fran: 3 first round picks
There are many ways to skin a cat and to take the 49ers approach and meld it to the Packers players and coaches would produce problems. The 49ers have a raft of young talent and can now backfill backups almost in any method they prefer in the short term. They certainly can use 12 draft picks to trade up several times in a draft.
The Packers are trying to churn out double win seasons and will not be drafting early in any round in most cases. Much of their best young talent is on their second or third contract in Rodgers case. The biggest challenge facing a successful team is maintaining that success level. Adopting the 49ers talent acquisition model from a time when they were terrible is a bad option. To do it, you would need to constantly trade up, thereby reducing the number of picks and your replenish rate.
Thompson doesn't need to change the approach. The Packers need to turn out one or two better lineman either by choosing better players with the choices they have or developing better players with the coaches they have.
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to see a decade of laughingstock play just to get better draft picks for Ted.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
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^^ This.Originally posted by pbmax View Post"Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg JenningsComment
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I'm not comparing the talents, just putting SF in the same situation as Green Bay.Originally posted by pbmax View Post
Anthony Davis breaks both the bones in his leg late one season and is gone the whole next season.
Joe Staley goes down with a hip injury in week 9 of the following season.
That's going to have an effect on a team's season. Are the reserves going to be just as good as the starters? No, they are reserves. Let's look at how the OL was built:
Joe Staley, LT 1st round pick 28 in 2007
The 49ers acquired Staley after trading into the first round with the New England Patriots. The Niners gave their 2008 1st Round Pick(which became Jerrod Mayo) and a 4th Round pick in 2007. The Patriots subsequently traded the fourth round pick (110 overall) to the Oakland Raiders for wide receiver Randy Moss.
He started as a RT and swapped over to LT the next year. Had he been injured at any point in his early development, it would have set the team back, especially since they gave up a first round pick to acquire him.
Mike Iupati, LG, drafted 1st round, pick 17
#17: Carolina → San Francisco (PD). Carolina traded this selection to San Francisco for 2009 second- (43rd overall; Carolina selected Everette Brown) and fourth-round selections (111th overall; Carolina selected Mike Goodson).
Jonathan Goodwin, C, drafted by Jets in 5th round 2002
He's 34 now. On August 3, 2011, Goodwin signed with the San Francisco 49ers as an unrestricted free agent.
Alex Boone, RG, undrafted free agent in 2009
After being signed by the San Francisco 49ers as an unrestricted free agent following the 2009 NFL Draft, he was released on the final day of roster cuts. He was subsequently signed to the practice squad. He was signed to the active roster on January 6, 2010. In the 2012 season he exceeded expectations by becoming a starter, and by performing at or near Pro Bowl caliber levels.[2] One journalist called Boone one of the most underpaid players in the NFL.
Anthony Davis, RT, drafted 1st round, pick 11 in 2010
#11: multiple trades:
#11: Chicago → Denver (PD). Chicago traded this selection, a 2009 first-round selection (18th overall; Denver selected Robert Ayers) and a 2009 third-round selection (84th overall; traded to Pittsburgh, who selected Mike Wallace), and quarterback Kyle Orton to Denver for quarterback Jay Cutler and a 2009 fifth-round selection (140th overall, Chicago selected Johnny Knox).[source 1]
#11: Denver → San Francisco (D). Denver traded this selection it acquired from Chicago to San Francisco for a first-round selection (13th overall; traded to Philadelphia, who selected Brandon Graham) and a fourth-round selection (113th overall; traded to New England, who selected Aaron Hernandez).
So, in my example, Joe Staley and Anthony Davis both go down. Who does that leave them with for healthy starting OL? Iupati. He's obviously good. We have Sitton. He's good too. What does it leave them with at center? A journeyman on his 3rd team who is still productive, but getting up there in years. Finally they have Alex Boone, an undrafted free agent who was on their practice squad and really made good once he got an opportunity.
We spent 2 first rounders on OT, they spent 4 first round picks to get 3 first rounders since they had to give up a first rounder to get Staley back in 2007. We had an old center last year who was just a stop gap. Now we have someone we hope is the next Alex Boone. They both entered the league in 2009 as undrafted free agents and now EDS is getting a shot. We'll see if he makes good.
So, the difference in the path taken to build the offensive line is Mike Iupati (a first rounder pick) and Josh Sitton (a fourth round pick). Otherwise, we both drafted OT's in the first round, they have an undrafted guard they hit on and we have T.J. Lang. Then it's journeyman guy at center vs. EDS. They are not built so wildly different if you really look at it. What is the difference by and large? Health for one and body type/scheme. They always wanted to run the ball with Gore and we have not had a strong commitment to the run. This year we drafted a bruiser and an edge guy at RB, so that might just change. SF can show different looks on offense with what they have built. Green Bay is identified mostly by the passing game with the exception of when they could get a few solid performances from James Starks in the playoffs in 2010. I think the commitment level is about to change. That will make the Packers less predictable and help the offense and Aaron Rodgers even more.
Now we just need a run of good health and with that some continuity and I think we will be OK. I can't control what Thompson does with the draft or how he and MM build an OL, so I don't stress about it. I wish them well.Last edited by Carolina_Packer; 05-05-2013, 11:10 AM."Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." -Daniel Patrick MoynihanComment
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Rodgers not the anti-Favre. Only anti-Favre the Older. Favre the Younger was very much the textbook definition of holding the ball too long. Neither liked to throw the ball away. Favre used to make ill-advised throws at the end of holding the ball too long, Rodgers takes the sack. pbmaxOriginally posted by pbmax View Post
That's what I mean.The way that Aaron Rodgers handles himself in or out of the pocket assists his high SACK number. In that sense his high SACK number isn't all on the inefficiency of the OL. ..... woodbuck27
Ted Thompson's picks as Packers GM ... Up To Date ... April 28, 2013
"There are two first round picks who SHOULD be starting on the O line and barring a broken leg, would be starting for the Packers." pbmax
Maybe!?
The two tackles that TT selected in Rd. 1 are B. Bulaga (will start LT in 2013) and D. Sherrod who's strictly now, a wait and see RE: starting at either tackle position. D. Sherrod 'in fact' may not be effective or ready to go anywhere on our OL this season. Evidence of that is TT going OL-OL... back to back picks #109 D. Bakhtiari and #122 J.C. Tretter >>> in Rd. 4 Draft 2013. .... woodbuck27
Thompson doesn't need to change the approach. The Packers need to turn out one or two better lineman either by choosing better players with the choices they have or developing better players with the coaches they have. pbmax
Wist43 and I are focusing our argument on TT not watering down the draft by trading down for more picks. That TT has a more reasonal prospect approach or higher chance for delivering a decent prospect to MM and the coaching staff if he selects that needed OL candidate/prospect or DL candidate/prospect whatever position/prospect in higher rounds. Going with more than an assumption that >>>higher quality prospects generally are drafted earlier than lower quality prospects.
We're claiming that Ted Thompson 'in fact' is smarter, to change his approach.
The draft isn't the equivalent to 'a Ted Thompson sandbox', where his mother supplied along with that sandbox all sorts of different toys. Less toys means more room for Ted to play and really get to discover those fewer toys. Fewer toys means greater toy appreciation and less neglect of all toys overall.
RE: The coaches and developing the players that TT does supply them. You want an orange pick an orange not an apple. If TT only supplies apples when MM and his coaching staff need to develop efficient oranges>>> the end result is defeated at the beginning by a TT bent that fails time and time... over and over again.
MM: I need an orange TT...draft me nothing but an orange, please and thank you.
TT: Tell you what MM. Is it OK if I draft something that looks like an orange. Even if it's an apple? I'm going to do that MM.
MM: Scratches his head because the bottom line. He's the HC of 'THe Green Bay Packers'.
MM: Is wearing a T-Shirt embazoned with this logo. In Ted I trust. Then it must be/has to be...so. .... woodbuck27
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to see a decade of laughingstock play just to get better draft picks for Ted pbmax
Well that's where every Packer fan is headed if TT doesn't get a grip. .... Woodbuck27
GO PACK GO!** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. ThoreauComment
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Q: The evaluations of David Bakhtiari seem to indicate that he is a finesse player who lacks strength. Is he tough enough to help the Packers or just another soft player?
A: Bob McGinn - Dave: Bakhtiari's issue is strength and power. He is on the short side for LT and seems to lack pop for LG, RG and RT. He's just 21. He needs to get bigger and stronger. Scouts don't think he can get on the field and be a legitimate player until his weight and strength increase. His niche might be as a guard for a zone team that cuts a lot. But with GB incorporating more power run game last year I'm not sure where he figures here. It will be very interesting to see where McCarthy and James Campen lined him up initially.** Since 2006 3 X Pro Pickem' Champion; 4 X Runner-Up and 3 X 3rd place.
** To download Jesus Loves Me ring tones, you'll need a cell phone mame
** If God doesn't fish, play poker or pull for " the Packers ", exactly what does HE do with his buds?
** Rather than love, money or fame - give me TRUTH: Henry D. ThoreauComment
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I have yet to see a convincing argument against trading down.
3irty1 ran some numbers that demonstrate Thompson has not veered into the foolishness of trying to acquire every starter among the lower rounds and he effectively points out the cost prohibitiveness of being wrong high in the draft.
And I would bet that is we used a more reasonable list of effective starters that the original wist list, which was constructed to help him make his claim, those numbers would look even more favorably at the bottom of the draft.
Just because every poster here knows who Brian Schwenke is, and has read his draft profile on NFL Draft Scout and has seen his You Tube highlights and saw the National Championship games does not make him a better selection than either of Thompson's two O line picks.
We know a name; the Packers, hopefully, know the player he will become.Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
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