Positions upgraded/Positions downgraded

[Patler]

In another thread, rbaloha said this:

Bottom Line: EDS is a big upgrade over Saturday.

This got me to thinking. Too often we as fans want TT to swing for the fences and hit homeruns when fixing roster problems. But, roster building is more about making net improvements, hitting singles and doubles if you will, than it is about hitting homeruns.

With that in mind, compared to the roster that played last year, where do you expect the Packers to be better, and where might they have lost ground and be worse? In my opinion:

Better

Running back - Lacy and Franklin can be big upgrades.
Left Tackle - Bulaga will be better than Newhouse.
Center - EDS over Saturday.
Right Tackle - Barclay is better than last year, or beaten out by someone better than him.
Def End - Jones over Worthy.
MLB - adding Bishop back into the mix makes the position better.
Kicker - Crosby gets over the yips, or is replaced. Either way, better than last year.


Possibly Better

Safety - Burnett continues to improve along with at least one of the younger guys.
OLB opposite Matthews - if Perry plays better than Walden and young guys improve.
TE - Finley over himself (I'm expecting a better all-around year from him). Quarless back as an all-around TE, and a better #2 TE receiver than anyone from last year. Crabtree was a fan favorite, but Mulligan will likely be a better blocker, assuming he makes the team.


Worse, or Possibly Worse
OLB opposite Matthews - if Perry shows no feel for the position and young guys are blah.
Fullback - Kuhn gets old, but who cares?

Normally, we could point to the losses of guys like Jennings and Woodson, but neither one contributed much last year, so when comparing this year to last, they are not significant losses on the field.

Injuries can change all of this, but at many positions, shouldn't this team be better than the one that played in 2012?

[Zool]

Newhouse*

[Patler]

Newhouse*

Ya, I don't see the problem!
(Damn, I must be getting old! )

[Zool]

Ya, I don't see the problem!
(Damn, I must be getting old! )

If Craig Newsome was playing tackle, that would explain a lot. Or was it Ozzie?

[Patler]

If Craig Newsome was playing tackle, that would explain a lot. Or was it Ozzie?

From the criticism on here, it could have been either!

[Pugger]

In another thread, rbaloha said this:



This got me to thinking. Too often we as fans want TT to swing for the fences and hit homeruns when fixing roster problems. But, roster building is more about making net improvements, hitting singles and doubles if you will, than it is about hitting homeruns.

With that in mind, compared to the roster that played last year, where do you expect the Packers to be better, and where might they have lost ground and be worse? In my opinion:

Better

Running back - Lacy and Franklin can be big upgrades.
Left Tackle - Bulaga will be better than Newhouse.
Center - EDS over Saturday.
Right Tackle - Barclay is better than last year, or beaten out by someone better than him.
Def End - Jones over Worthy.
MLB - adding Bishop back into the mix makes the position better.
Kicker - Crosby gets over the yips, or is replaced. Either way, better than last year.


Possibly Better

Safety - Burnett continues to improve along with at least one of the younger guys.
OLB opposite Matthews - if Perry plays better than Walden and young guys improve.
TE - Finley over himself (I'm expecting a better all-around year from him). Quarless back as an all-around TE, and a better #2 TE receiver than anyone from last year. Crabtree was a fan favorite, but Mulligan will likely be a better blocker, assuming he makes the team.


Worse, or Possibly Worse
OLB opposite Matthews - if Perry shows no feel for the position and young guys are blah.
Fullback - Kuhn gets old, but who cares?

Normally, we could point to the losses of guys like Jennings and Woodson, but neither one contributed much last year, so when comparing this year to last, they are not significant losses on the field.

Injuries can change all of this, but at many positions, shouldn't this team be better than the one that played in 2012?

This can't be too hard...

[hoosier]

Downgrade at WR. With Jennings missing (out or a shadow of his former self) for most of the year, the offense struggled to produce big plays last year. With Jennings now gone, things won't get better quickly. And if one of the big three goes down for any length of time, the offense loses a lot of the variability that makes it so hard to prepare for. In fact, I think they need Boykin or one of the late round draft picks to emerge as players before the offense can return to its accustomed levels of productivity. Given the shuffling of the OL, the loss of Jennings and the possibility that Rodgers feels pressure to live up to his new contract, I expect the offense to struggle--at least initially and maybe longer--in 2013.

[Brandon494]

Better:

TE- I think the improved running game will help Finley's game as well, hopefully he'll pull a James Jones and fix his dropping problem. Hopefully Quarless will be able to come back strong as well.

CB- I think we also will be improved at CB even after losing CW. Remember Tramon Williams shoulder still wasn't at 100% last season, Davon House wasn't healthy all season after having a promising training camp, Hayward should only get better, and I like the kid they drafted from Iowa. Oh yea and don't forget about Sam Shields who bounced back strong last season after a sophomore slump.

MLB- Bishop was our 2nd best defensive player in 2011, having him back will be huge. Also don't get about Terrell Manning who was sick last season resulting in him losing 15 pounds. I don't know if he'll get much playing time but he'll be able to replace DJ Smith as a backup.

DL- Jones brings some pass rushing and MAYBE Jolly shows from flashes.

OLB- We get Nick Perry back, this guy stud. He was a rookie playing a new position last season and people expected him to play like an all pro. Unlike Walden this guy can run with Kaepernick.

OL- Moving our best two lineman to the left, upgrade at center, and should be better at run blocking

HB- Obviously


Worse:

We get worse at WR after losing Greg Jennings. Obviously losing a #1 WR hurts but luckily for us we have #12 at QB so I don't see us dropping off a bit plus we should see more running this year anyway.

Keep up the good work TT!

[RashanGary]

Solid way to look at it. We haven't really lost anyone of mention who was around last year, nor are we aging at any meaningful positions. All we've done is add.

Sort of building on your model, in a more broad way, you could take the collective youth on our team weighted against the collective aging population and get at least one more "likely to excel in there." I don't know if any one player is likely enough to take a step to list individually, but we were a young team last year, and history tells us, the Packers do develop talent. *See Lang, Shields, Tramon, JJones, Finley (breaking out in his 2nd/3rd years while being a bum in his first), Rodgers, possibly others. As young as we are, the likelyhood of our team taking big steps (collectively, even in areas not big enough for you to list. I can't give one name. Could be Mike Neal, Mike Daniels, Greg VanRotten, MD Jennings, Davon House or any other list of names who could just pop to a different level.

I do think Bulaga on the left (assuming there is a running game to slow down the pass rush a little) is his best spot. He's a decent run blocker (gobs better than Newhouse), and I think will look even more decent against smaller players. He's a decent pass protector, and I remember him getting beat a little worse inside than outside, so moving to the left shouldn't add to a previously foreseen issue and might even accentuate his overall skillset a little better. Probably the biggest gain in having Barclay on the right with Bulaga on the left is we rid ourselves of possibly our only glaring run blocking liability. We have 5 guys who can get their hands on the guy in front of them and keep them there. If we run better, that will slow down the entire pass rush and change the coverages.

A possible trend is for the Packers to run the ball better early, then start really opening up as the season goes on. If AR goes off, especially as the season goes on, people will probably site Newhouse's pass protection as a huge part of the issue. I think the more likely reason for the passing game going off is the combination of better run blocking and better running backs. That will change the way DL approach our line and change the way DB's/LB's defend our offense. That, IMO, is the single biggest thing that can change to help our offense. If defenses have to play us differently, AR will go off. If our pass protection is slightly better and that's the only change, AR will still be stuck with the ball in his hand with no where to go and DL pinning their ears back.

If you had to take one thing affecting our passing game and list it as the biggest change from 2011 to 2012, I think the obvious answer is how defenses approached our offense. If we were to go through Newhouse pass pro from 2011 to 2012 and do that across the line, I don't think the collective loss from 2011 to 2012 is even close to indicative of the actual drop off we had. But if you examine with an eye that has watched a lot of football and you look at the defenses we were facing in 2011 vs 2012, I think you get a much more realistic indicator of what affected AR's game.

[Brandon494]

Downgrade at WR. With Jennings missing (out or a shadow of his former self) for most of the year, the offense struggled to produce big plays last year. With Jennings now gone, things won't get better quickly. And if one of the big three goes down for any length of time, the offense loses a lot of the variability that makes it so hard to prepare for. In fact, I think they need Boykin or one of the late round draft picks to emerge as players before the offense can return to its accustomed levels of productivity. Given the shuffling of the OL, the loss of Jennings and the possibility that Rodgers feels pressure to live up to his new contract, I expect the offense to struggle--at least initially and maybe longer--in 2013.

We add two pretty good RBs to help take some of the pressure off Rodgers and remember we didn't have Jennings for 7 games last season and still went 5-2. Also the shuffling of the OL should only help Rodgers since our best two O-lineman will be blocking his blind side. I think our offense will do fine and I do believe Boykin can make a solid #4 WR with Finley also getting time at the position.

[Patler]

Downgrade at WR. With Jennings missing (out or a shadow of his former self) for most of the year, the offense struggled to produce big plays last year. With Jennings now gone, things won't get better quickly.

Downgrade at depth, perhaps. But as to the onfield performers 2012 vs. 2013, there isn't really much of a change because Jennings wasn't a factor. It can even be argued that there isn't much of a change in WR depth compared to 2012, because of the season Jennings had last year.

Assuming Jennings to be healthy, his loss is certain. But comparing roster today with game rosters in 2012, not much of a change.

[Patler]

Worse:[/B]

We get worse at WR after losing Greg Jennings. Obviously losing a #1 WR hurts but luckily for us we have #12 at QB so I don't see us dropping off a bit plus we should see more running this year anyway.

Keep up the good work TT!

For all practical purposes, they didn't have Jennings last year.
If Bishop were traded, would linebackers be weaker than in 2012? No, because Bishop wasn't there in 2012.

Almost the same with Jennings. They played without him a good portion of the season, and with him at reduced effectiveness for most if not all of the games he did play. Losing him entirely is not a huge change from what he provided in 2012.

[Patler]

To add another wrinkle in the evaluation:

Is there anyone who had a season in 2012 which he is unlikely to repeat in 2013:

James Jones, perhaps.
Hayward or Shields, perhaps. We really don't know what their standard level will be. Especially Shields who has fluctuated a lot.

[KYPack]

Safety and FB, I'm still worried.

Maybe we should get rid of the FB position and just go two RB's.

Kuhn got real fugly by the SF game.

WR could be bad, but I don't think it will.

[smuggler]

Jones won't score 14 TDs, but he should still get around 700 yards receiving, which is decent.