2013 Packers Starting Defensive Line: Who Ya Got?

[rbaloha1]

Jones is a huge upgrade over Wilson, but again it comes down to how Capers will use him and the others. It's all on Capers.

Due to Jones's outstanding first step, I fully expect teams will have to account for his quickness into gaps off the snap. For that reason, using Jones on stunts with Perry, Raji, Neal, and Daniels should be very effective as teams will have to account for Jones first.

That said, we still have the the same problems we had last year. We get better with Perry coming back, but our ILB's and sub-package guys are the very definition of pedestrian - and since our defensive linemen are more likely to be charged with penetrating as opposed to eating up blocks, and since we don't have LB's that can stack and shed - we're going to get a lot more of what we got last year.

Over the course of season, and going up against power teams, we needed at least one more capable big man and we didn't get one. I fully expect Capers to simply run more of what he ran last year, only expecting different results. That won't work.

The problem is Capers, and as long as he's our DC it is next to impossible to evaluate the players. As I've said, if I'm BJ Raji?? I'm outta there the second the clock strikes 0:00 in the final game.

Braddah -- you are on roll!

IMO the getting bigger more powerful players was not adequately addressed but Boyd (check-out those legs) and Jolly certainly help.

Initally thought Raji had a chance to Sapp like -- similar type build and skill set. Agree that DC is killing Raji's career. The guy is not a 2 gapper and is too often getting crushed.

ILB are not helpful since they can not directly take-on blockers consistently -- Bishop helps in this area and maybe another Bishop type emerges.

My bigger concern is all eleven on the same page against modern attacks -- every game in which the Packers get beat-up defensively there are comments about miscommunications. Plus there is a lack of trust that players will follow assignments consistently which forced Woodson to free lance.

[pbmax]

Jones could provide those kinds of upgrades at Wilson's DE spot. But that was not the major problem with the D line. I am just not sure that is the biggest area of need. Stunting might help in pass rush, but how many rush stunts did you see in the NFL last year? I can't recall any (not counting pass rush stunt on a draw or something).

Packers averaged a 22nd ranked run D at the left tackle and end (right side of D), were 12th in the middle (far higher than I imagined) and 25th against right tackle and end. This according to Football Outsiders.

So I think greatest area needing improvement is still LDE, but the margin might be smaller than my memory suggests.

If we look game by game, might see how much Perry versus Walden affected that.

[wist43]

Jones could provide those kinds of upgrades at Wilson's DE spot. But that was not the major problem with the D line. I am just not sure that is the biggest area of need. Stunting might help in pass rush, but how many rush stunts did you see in the NFL last year? I can't recall any (not counting pass rush stunt on a draw or something).

Packers averaged a 22nd ranked run D at the left tackle and end (right side of D), were 12th in the middle (far higher than I imagined) and 25th against right tackle and end. This according to Football Outsiders.

So I think greatest area needing improvement is still LDE, but the margin might be smaller than my memory suggests.

If we look game by game, might see how much Perry versus Walden affected that.

I am referring to a four man front mainly in pass rush situations, but that doesn't mean you can't play a little more base 4-3. My main goal would be to get Raji off the nose, to keep him fresher throughout the game and season. You'd have to take it on a game-by-game basis, depending on who you're facing.

TT and MM have a very cavalier attitude toward the defensive front. Pickett is gonna fade, and Raji might be gone next year... and all TT does is bring in Boyd?? Good grief - we're supposed to be a 3-4 defense and we can't even begin to field 3-4 personnel.

Since we don't have 3-4 personnel, we might as well admit it and show more 4-3 looks.

As for our flanks getting gashed time and again... without tape to look at (my DVR died and I lost all the games I had recorded) I'm just going by memory; but I do remember a lot of it coming against Capers's gimmick fronts. Raji and Pickett/Daniels/ Neal inside, Perry/Walden and Matthews outside, and Jones/Hawk/McMillian/et al roving behind Raji and Pickett - at times it looked like no one had any gap responsibility.

Teams can block down on the edge and our pedestrian ILB's can't read/react/disengage/make the play - I don't think that changes much. I think Perry is a lot better than Walden, and Jones is much better than Wilson, but that's not near enough.

Certainly not enough to overcome Capers being our DC. We have to endure one more year with him, and I fully expect him to be fired about 48 hours after our season ends. After Capers is gone, then we can begin to look at rebuilding the defense.

[pbmax]

wist, You have probably posted this earlier, but a quick search isn't working.

Who plays SLB, WLB and who are the two DEs in your 4-3?

[pbmax]

In this article: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...207973221.html

Ty Dunne clearly envisions Jones major role being next to Raji in the 2-4 nickel.

Going to be interesting camp to see where he works out. I just don't see pass rush as the need from him. Of course it would be welcome, but run D needs the help more.

[rbaloha1]

In this article: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...207973221.html

Ty Dunne clearly envisions Jones major role being next to Raji in the 2-4 nickel.

Going to be interesting camp to see where he works out. I just don't see pass rush as the need from him. Of course it would be welcome, but run D needs the help more.

Jones is the type of d-lineman equipped to play the newer offenses.

IMO sacks are overrated -- its more about collapsing the pocket, hits and hurries.

[wist43]

In this article: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...207973221.html

Ty Dunne clearly envisions Jones major role being next to Raji in the 2-4 nickel.

Going to be interesting camp to see where he works out. I just don't see pass rush as the need from him. Of course it would be welcome, but run D needs the help more.

That's the first thing I thought of too... I fully expect a shit ton of 2-4 this year with Jones and Raji lined up over the guards and Matthews and Perry coming off the edge - yeah, I hate that idea. How many games have we watched where we get into the 4th quarter and Matthews and Raji are both completely gassed?? Beyond that, it's an easy read for the OL and QB.

As for run D... again, it comes down to Capers. If he's jumping to that formation on 2nd and 6 - which I fully expect him to do every chance he gets - then we're in big trouble. I think Jones could hold up against the run okay, but not full time. If he's a full time 5T, I think he'll wear down. I'd much rather see him in a rotation that seeks to maximize his quickness.

I'm always saber rattling for more front seven help, but TT keeps throwing square pegs at round holes... it's up to Capers to find a way to get all the miscast toys functioning as an effective attack unit. Capers has done nothing but make a mess of things the last 2 years.

My fear is that Capers is going to misuse Jones the same way he's misused Raji.

[Patler]

1st and 10 against a team with no particular predeliction to pass:

Jolly - Raji - Wilson

[3irty1]

I'll be interested to see what Daniels role is this season. Last season as a rookie he proved he could consistently win one-on-one scenarios and despite his size and the fact that rookie DT's almost always suck at playing the run, he earned a spot in the goal-line D. I think Daniels could actually be what we all hope Neal will be.

I agree with Wist that it seems like many of our D-line are ideally 3-techs in a 4-3. Daniels, Neal, Worthy, Boyd, and Jolly would all be most at home as 3-tech, probably another reason we've historically used the 2-4 so much since its basically the same as a 4-2-5 with OLB playing DE with their head's up.

[rbaloha1]

Daniels needs to bulk up.

[Cleft Crusty]

I can dance to Wilson Pickett, but for the Packers' sake, if they see those two on the field together, well, that's a bad sign - they won't slow that CK mustang down.