Desmond

[Brandon494]

Forced Fumbles

[Cleft Crusty]

Forced Fumbles

Clefty is confused - is that number of FFs that the Packers recovered or total?

[QBME]

Clefty is confused - is that number of FFs that the Packers recovered or total?

According to ESPN stats, for the season Packers had 8 forced fumbles, recovered 5 of them.

[Cleft Crusty]

According to ESPN stats, for the season Packers had 8 forced fumbles, recovered 5 of them.

That explains some of the confusion. That, and incipient dementia.

[RashanGary]

If you want to call the packers D soft, this sums it up. Desmond isn't the biggest guy, he might "hurt" the weight average stat that some like to cite. But he has a chip on his shoulder. Guys need to play football with a chip. High motor, refuse to quit guys are infectious. That is why I like guys like Lang and Sitton. Grinders. Guys that get beat, get up and try harder.

I have hopes that guys like Jones, Bishop, McMillan might change the attitude of this D. They don't need to be bigger, they need to have a chip on their shoulder.

I agree completely. Nastiness. If you watch the NBA, teams are realizing, the way to slow down great offense is to inflict a little pain. Some men are not created equal. There are super-human specimens. Lebron, AP, etc. . . . You stop them by hurting them. Their mind is not super-human. They are human, and if you hurt them, they protect their bodies better next time. Bishop makes having the ball a less joyous occasion for the opposition.

This is a big belief of mine in football, but a big hit does not affect one play. Those 2 fumbles Bishop causes per season don't just affect that play. They make the RB scared of dropping the ball again, and they make him afraid of getting hit again. One D. Bishop hit affects the guy on the receiving end for the rest of the game. Bishop is a hammer and it changes games.

[Brandon494]

Yup, I'd much rather see Bishop knocking the snot out of someone then Hawk arm wrapping a player then dropping to his knees until help comes.

[3irty1]

Oops looks like I'm spreading misinformation with my 2 FF comment. Not sure where why I thought that was the real number. Either way its not enough and Bishop can fix it. I don't believe for a second that he was seriously being shopped either. Seems like one of those PFT narratives like when Rodgers hated cancer patients.

[RashanGary]

Yup, I'd much rather see Bishop knocking the snot out of someone then Hawk arm wrapping a player then dropping to his knees until help comes.

There's a safety in Baltimore, not Reed, but the other guy. I forget his name, pollard I think. Anyway, that guy is a fruckin hammer. You can see he has coverage deficiencies, but when I watch Baltimore play, the big hits that guy puts on. I guarantee he makes offensive players afraid and tentative.

I definitely don't put Bishop in the Clay category of playmaker. Clay not only hurts people, but he's so good at what he does, teams have to gameplan against him too. Bishop isn't that kind of playmaker. I think PB has kept it an X's and O's discussion. Clay, certainly, will shine in an X's and O's discussion, and every other discussion, making him one of the games greatest players. Football is more than X's and O's though, and not everyone is a matchup nightmare like Clay. There is a natural body preservation factor. Hitters command respect.

I read an article in ESPN magazine today about Dwight Howard. He's not the shot blocker Larry Sanders is, but because he's such a fucking bully, players don't even bother going into the paint against him. They do against Sanders, even though Sanders has a higher block percentage. The moral of the story was, teams will go into the paint against Sanders even though he blocks a high percentage of shots because they're not afraid of him, but they won't go into the paint against Howard even though he's less likely to block shots becuase he'll fuck them up.

PB, if we were to look at football strictly in X's and O's as you are sort of doing here, Bishop and Hawk are comparable players. Hawk can do this, Bishop that. It's a conversation. But if you look at Bishops big hits and believe it changes the psychology of the ball carrier from aggressive and unafraid to tentative, then I think you're a bigger believer in the hammer like me and Brandon.

I fully buy into intimidation. I've been choked out, punched out and beat up. . . I've been on the winning side too. I grew up in a bit of a rough environment. Maybe I have ghetto ball mentality, but it's intuitive to me that you want to intimidate the opponent. I just know that naturally, from life experience. If you've never had someone beat you up and put that scare in you, I imagine it wouldn't be as natural.

[RashanGary]

Another thing you learn by losing a fight. . . . If you're winning, you don't stop because what you're doing to him will happen to you. That's why, in football, I think you need to play will an edge. If you don't rattle his head, he's going to put his helmet down and rattle yours. You have to play 110%.

Football is physical. It is very real that if you let him hurt you, he will hurt you. And even if 20% of players are friendly and nice on the field, you can't take that chance with any of them. The other 80% will either take your head off because they're in the moment or take your head off on purpose.

Again, I've talked about playing football a certain way, and I fully believe in it. But I think this is the best explaination I can give as to why. I never quite knew what it was before, but after reading that article, it got me thinking, and I think this is exactly why. You hurt people because it slows them down. You slow them down so they don't hurt you and so you win. It's simple logic.

Football is won by force, just like a fight. You beat the will out of your opponent.

[ThunderDan]

Yup, I'd much rather see Bishop knocking the snot out of someone then Hawk arm wrapping a player then dropping to his knees until help comes.

Not me so much. Early in Bishops career he would go for the knock out shot and would fly thru the wrong hole leading to long run after long run. That's what kept him on the bench. I would much rather have a LB that makes the tackle than knock the guy out. Sure it would be great to have a Ray Lewis on the team, a guy who can tackle and make big hits, but we don't have that on the Packers right now.

If Bishop returns to his 2011 form and is assignment sure it will be a big improvement for the D.

[Brandon494]

Not me so much. Early in Bishops career he would go for the knock out shot and would fly thru the wrong hole leading to long run after long run. That's what kept him on the bench. I would much rather have a LB that makes the tackle than knock the guy out. Sure it would be great to have a Ray Lewis on the team, a guy who can tackle and make big hits, but we don't have that on the Packers right now.

If Bishop returns to his 2011 form and is assignment sure it will be a big improvement for the D.

Of course some players are going to struggle early on in there careers but hes assignment sure now and he still lays big hits. I also truly believe only reason he was riding the bench early on was because he had the #5 draft pick in front of him who was making big money. Some people want to say I'm a AJ Hawk hater but I call it like I see it and I've been a strong Bishop supporter from the very start and when he finally did get the playing time he performed. I don't mind Hawk and Bishop as our two starting ILB now but when he ran the 4-3 I believe they should have moved Hawk to the outside and have Bishop starting at MLB instead of Poppinga/Hawk/Barnett.

[woodbuck27]

I agree completely. Nastiness. If you watch the NBA, teams are realizing, the way to slow down great offense is to inflict a little pain. Some men are not created equal. There are super-human specimens. Lebron, AP, etc. . . . You stop them by hurting them. Their mind is not super-human. They are human, and if you hurt them, they protect their bodies better next time. Bishop makes having the ball a less joyous occasion for the opposition.

This is a big belief of mine in football, but a big hit does not affect one play. Those 2 fumbles Bishop causes per season don't just affect that play. They make the RB scared of dropping the ball again, and they make him afraid of getting hit again. One D. Bishop hit affects the guy on the receiving end for the rest of the game. Bishop is a hammer and it changes games.

A huge hit also fires up teammates. It's like a dinner bell.

[ThunderDan]

Of course some players are going to struggle early on in there careers but hes assignment sure now and he still lays big hits. I also truly believe only reason he was riding the bench early on was because he had the #5 draft pick in front of him who was making big money. Some people want to say I'm a AJ Hawk hater but I call it like I see it and I've been a strong Bishop supporter from the very start and when he finally did get the playing time he performed. I don't mind Hawk and Bishop as our two starting ILB now but when he ran the 4-3 I believe they should have moved Hawk to the outside and have Bishop starting at MLB instead of Poppinga/Hawk/Barnett.

We ran Popp/Barnett/Hawk. Hawk was the Will in the 4-3.

[Brandon494]

We ran Popp/Barnett/Hawk. Hawk was the Will in the 4-3.

You sure? I'm pretty I remember Barnett complaining about being moved to the outside but maybe I'm mistaken.

[ThunderDan]

You sure? I'm pretty I remember Barnett complaining about being moved to the outside but maybe I'm mistaken.

Barnett always played Mike in the D.