For the Packer Denialists

[RashanGary]

Yes, they want this stuff to go away in order to keep their jobs.

They want it to go away because it's another thing to defend. They have the ability to make it go away because the NFL has some of the biggest, meanest, most violent, ill intentioned men in the world playing defense. In the NFL, unlike college, youth is something QB's only have for the early parts of their career and the complexity of the game gives 28-32 year old players an advantage mentally.

Capers may be a dinosaur in your eyes, but people are just as much compliant to the laws of physics and the biology as they were 20 years ago. Fucking up someones body today is the same as fucking up someones body 100 years ago. QB's peak in the late 20's and it's not because their bodies are best then. It's because the combination of mind/body peak then.

With the new QB protection rules, I can see guys who move around and take physical risks lasting longer. I don't see it completely shifting though. It only takes one monster shot per season to derail a playoff run or end a career. QB play is still going to be most dependent on the ability to manage the game (pace, rhythm, leadership, knowing when to throw the ball away, take a sack, etc), move the ball through the air and stay healthy (triple important for the QB position where the entire rhythm of the offense is set by one guy.)

Running is a cherry on the cake, but just like RBs, running QB's WILL get injured and will have shortened careers. Probably even more-so because QB's need to be taller and as such will take much bigger hits. Knees will be shredded, ribs broken, concussions had, etc. . . . It's a dangerous game, man. RB's are usually 5'10" to 6 feet tall for a reason. Tall guys take far bigger shots to the ribs/back and get their heads spiked to the turf much easier.

[rbaloha1]

They want it to go away because it's another thing to defend. They have the ability to make it go away because the NFL has some of the biggest, meanest, most violent, ill intentioned men in the world playing defense. In the NFL, unlike college, youth is something QB's only have for the early parts of their career and the complexity of the game gives 28-32 year old players an advantage mentally.

Capers may be a dinosaur in your eyes, but people are just as much compliant to the laws of physics and the biology as they were 20 years ago. Fucking up someones body today is the same as fucking up someones body 100 years ago. QB's peak in the late 20's and it's not because their bodies are best then. It's because the combination of mind/body peak then.

With the new QB protection rules, I can see guys who move around and take physical risks lasting longer. I don't see it completely shifting though. It only takes one monster shot per season to derail a playoff run or end a career. QB play is still going to be most dependent on the ability to move the ball through the air and stay healthy.

Certainly a defensive coordinator strategy to blow up the qb is viable but it takes away another defender. The 49ers also have Walker as a protector to account for this.

Capers is not a dinasour -- what was his answer to the niners? Why was he forced to consult with new age d-coordinators?

Its obvious you do not understand strategy and result to cave man retorts.

[denverYooper]

I don't think it was so much that as it was a badly butchered attempt at the expression: "Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one."

"I'll tell you what, you can get a good look at a T-Bone steak by stickin' yer head up a bull's ass, but wouldn't you rather just take the butcher's word for it?"

[RashanGary]

Certainly a defensive coordinator strategy to blow up the qb is viable but it takes away another defender. The 49ers also have Walker as a protector to account for this.

Capers is not a dinasour -- what was his answer to the niners? Why was he forced to consult with new age d-coordinators?

Its obvious you do not understand strategy and result to cave man retorts.

Not only is it viable, it only takes one defender, one pissed off DC, one time in an entire season to end a QB's season or even career. Let them try. It's effective, sure. Those guys are going to be their asses kicked though. Literally, it's no different than RB's. It shortens careers, causes more injuries, etc. And QB's aren't built as compact as RB's. They need to be longer, have bigger arms, etc. . . . . Those guys will get killed, man.

It's a nice wrinkle, especially nice in the playoffs, but the NFL is not going to change to running QB's. Way too much of the offense revolves around the QB being healthy every week, setting the pace, being the coach on the field.

RB's get hurt, have short careers. They're bodies are completely suited for one thing, running the ball. QB's will die. Joe Flacco won the SB last year. Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Rothlisberger, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, etc. . . . . .

Injury is very real in the NFL. If you don't get that, you're retarded.

[RashanGary]

aloha, it's not just blowing up the QB. It's the times he runs, he's going to get fucking killed too.

One in every few plays, I'd make sure to send an assassin on the QB. Fuck it, if that guy wants to do that, maybe they'll get away with it, but I'm make damn sure Colin Kapernick has head injury if he does it.

If he wants to have trouble feeding himself, remembering his kids names and driving his vehicle at the age of 40, let him, but I'd be damn sure to fuck his life up if he thinks he's going to just do whatever he wants.

And guess what, the NFL is filled with coahces and players who think just like me. You don't think the Packers have at least one embarassed player who want's to spike CK to the turf? HOw about Suh, or James Harrison? Guys like them? His brain will be a pile of mush and his career short if he thinks that's how it's going to go.

Just like every other sport predicated on violence, protect your head. Rule #1. Can't wait for 2013. It will be the year of the concussion for read option QB's. Defenders, DCs are not going to take kindly to that type of disrespect. It's like, yeah, you guys can't hurt me. Haha, wait, mother fucker. Get your piss and shit bag ready, cuz your life is about to change.

[rbaloha1]

Not only is it viable, it only takes one defender, one pissed off DC, one time in an entire season to end a QB's season or even career. Let them try. It's effective, sure. Those guys are going to be their asses kicked though. Literally, it's no different than RB's. It shortens careers, causes more injuries, etc. And QB's aren't built as compact as RB's. They need to be longer, have bigger arms, etc. . . . . Those guys will get killed, man.

It's a nice wrinkle, especially nice in the playoffs, but the NFL is not going to change to running QB's. Way too much of the offense revolves around the QB being healthy every week, setting the pace, being the coach on the field.

RB's get hurt, have short careers. They're bodies are completely suited for one thing, running the ball. QB's will die. Joe Flacco won the SB last year. Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Rothlisberger, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, etc. . . . . .

Injury is very real in the NFL. If you don't get that, you're retarded.

Never dismissed injuries. Read option has only been around for one year so you can not compare to pocket passing. You are to black and white to have any discussion -- all current nfl read option qbs except from Tebow can throw from the pocket.

My position is read option is a dimension (Jaws's opinion) and not a revolution (Dilfer's opinion)

You keep dreaming about this stuff to vanish -- it will not in your lifetime. Your dinasour cliches is part of the problem with arrogant coordinators like Capers, LebEau, Kiffin, etc. Guys like Belichek and Carroll learn, adapt and introduce it to their offenses.

[Fritz]

Are you suggesting that some want the offense to go away because defenses won't be able to cope with it? How would that be done, by rule changes or something?

If you are suggesting that, I don't recall anyone having implied that in the least. Some have opined that defenses will learn to handle it, and as a result it will go away or become an infrequent alternative. Some have seemed to suggest that this will become the new offense of the NFL, with ever-increasing use because defenses will not catch up to it.

I don't recall much else.

One aspect of the article I found compelling was the argument that a part of the reason the read-option is so difficult to defend is that it requires a mindset contrary to that the of the NFL defender. When big paychecks are handed out based on QB sacks and interceptions - aggression and chance-taking - and when world class athletes have been honed by coached into violent, attacking machines - then it's awfully difficult to ask NFL defenders to suddenly think very differently about how to stop an offense. As one coach put it, it's about thinking horizontally and not vertically. It's about patience and clogging lanes rather than beating the guy in front of you and getting to the ball.

PB has remarked on this from time to time - that assignment and scheme discipline might've been the biggest culprit in the Minny and SF losses toward the end of the season.

Instead of all this HGH and PED's, maybe spreading some ganj around the defensive huddle before the game would solve the problem of the read-option.

[rbaloha1]

aloha, it's not just blowing up the QB. It's the times he runs, he's going to get fucking killed too.

One in every few plays, I'd make sure to send an assassin on the QB. Fuck it, if that guy wants to do that, maybe they'll get away with it, but I'm make damn sure Colin Kapernick has head injury if he does it.

If he wants to have trouble feeding himself, remembering his kids names and driving his vehicle at the age of 40, let him, but I'd be damn sure to fuck his life up if he thinks he's going to just do whatever he wants.

And guess what, the NFL is filled with coahces and players who think just like me. You don't think the Packers have at least one embarassed player who want's to spike CK to the turf? HOw about Suh, or James Harrison? Guys like them? His brain will be a pile of mush and his career short if he thinks that's how it's going to go.

Just like every other sport predicated on violence, protect your head. Rule #1. Can't wait for 2013. It will be the year of the concussion for read option QB's. Defenders, DCs are not going to take kindly to that type of disrespect. It's like, yeah, you guys can't hurt me. Haha, wait, mother fucker. Get your piss and shit bag ready, cuz your life is about to change.

Pissing in the wind stuff.

CK is not stupid and knows how to protect himself. CK has been running this stuff for 6 plus years with no slowing down anytime soon.

RGIII learned a valuable lesson. RW is also good at sliding.

Guess what -- pocket passers have missed games due to injury (i.e. Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Rothelsberger, etc.)

[rbaloha1]

One aspect of the article I found compelling was the argument that a part of the reason the read-option is so difficult to defend is that it requires a mindset contrary to that the of the NFL defender. When big paychecks are handed out based on QB sacks and interceptions - aggression and chance-taking - and when world class athletes have been honed by coached into violent, attacking machines - then it's awfully difficult to ask NFL defenders to suddenly think very differently about how to stop an offense. As one coach put it, it's about thinking horizontally and not vertically. It's about patience and clogging lanes rather than beating the guy in front of you and getting to the ball.

PB has remarked on this from time to time - that assignment and scheme discipline might've been the biggest culprit in the Minny and SF losses toward the end of the season.

Instead of all this HGH and PED's, maybe spreading some ganj around the defensive huddle before the game would solve the problem of the read-option.

Thank you for helping demonstrate the dinasour thinking of d-coordinators and why the read option is not a fad. Retooling takes time.

[cheesner]

Pissing in the wind stuff.

CK is not stupid and knows how to protect himself. CK has been running this stuff for 6 plus years with no slowing down anytime soon.

RGIII learned a valuable lesson. RW is also good at sliding.

Guess what -- pocket passers have missed games due to injury (i.e. Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Rothelsberger, etc.)

Are you saying RGIII is stupid then? Its already a violent sport, and a QB running is at a greater risk to injury. First, their pads are lighter to help with passing. Second, they are not (as JH pointed out) built to withstand punishment. Third, they will be a target. If they pull off a big run they will make a defender look bad. The next time he tries it, if the defender gets a chance, he will be a little more pissed and hit him a little bit harder. That is just one of the tools an NFL defender uses - intimidation. Next time you try that you will hesitate a moment, and then the advantage goes to the defense.

[cheesner]

Thank you for helping demonstrate the dinasour thinking of d-coordinators and why the read option is not a fad. Retooling takes time.

Pistol offense is a fad. It will not be an issue by the end of this coming season.

[Guiness]

I liked how the 49ers did it. I liked how the Packers did it in 2010. Defenses have pride too. Try doing that all regular season, and you're bound to run into the wrong defender who's just waiting for the chance to inflict serious bodily harm on your QB. I think a TEAM has to be good enough in the regular season to limit the risk of a QB getting injured and still win. It would be like trying to flip heads 16 times in a row. The odds are slim. Three times in a row, though, the odds aren't so bad.

Interesting. Kind of like the way it used to be with special teams, with starters being on ST during playoffs.

[rbaloha1]

Pistol offense is a fad. It will not be an issue by the end of this coming season.

What is your basis for this claim?

[mraynrand]

aloha, it's not just blowing up the QB. It's the times he runs, he's going to get fucking killed too.

One in every few plays, I'd make sure to send an assassin on the QB. Fuck it, if that guy wants to do that, maybe they'll get away with it, but I'm make damn sure Colin Kapernick has head injury if he does it.

If he wants to have trouble feeding himself, remembering his kids names and driving his vehicle at the age of 40, let him, but I'd be damn sure to fuck his life up if he thinks he's going to just do whatever he wants.

And guess what, the NFL is filled with coahces and players who think just like me. You don't think the Packers have at least one embarassed player who want's to spike CK to the turf? HOw about Suh, or James Harrison? Guys like them? His brain will be a pile of mush and his career short if he thinks that's how it's going to go.

Just like every other sport predicated on violence, protect your head. Rule #1. Can't wait for 2013. It will be the year of the concussion for read option QB's. Defenders, DCs are not going to take kindly to that type of disrespect. It's like, yeah, you guys can't hurt me. Haha, wait, mother fucker. Get your piss and shit bag ready, cuz your life is about to change.

You're right on the money with your views, JH. Those read option QBs get out there in space and they are running backs, but everyone wants to get that big shot on them because they are the QB and everyone knows you can entirely end a team's threat by KOing the QB. You don't have to look much further than RGIII to know how devastating an injury to a running QB can be. The threat to run is what makes the running QB so dangerous. Start using it as a primary weapon and your primary weapon goes bye bye pretty fast.

In other threads some have suggested that there will be more of these running types and that they might be more interchangeable, so you won't need the same QB longevity but I don't see it. You have to have the brains and the throwing arm in addition to the running ability and it's just tough to get those all together in one package - and keep it healthy. (Obviously if these guys are right, then the RO/pistol will stick around, but that would represent a seismic shift in the NFL)

[rbaloha1]

Are you saying RGIII is stupid then? Its already a violent sport, and a QB running is at a greater risk to injury. First, their pads are lighter to help with passing. Second, they are not (as JH pointed out) built to withstand punishment. Third, they will be a target. If they pull off a big run they will make a defender look bad. The next time he tries it, if the defender gets a chance, he will be a little more pissed and hit him a little bit harder. That is just one of the tools an NFL defender uses - intimidation. Next time you try that you will hesitate a moment, and then the advantage goes to the defense.

RGIII is stupid for not covering up properly.

TT is built to run the spread option.

Guess what -- offensive players also attempt to intimidate defensive players.