The Skinbasket Weighs in on New Redskins Nicknames

[mraynrand]

Im rooting for the natives, and honestly, haha to the people who, despite their mpney, are still ruled by the power of people.

As a hint to ideological aspect, without going FYI on you, consider that sometimes - not necessarily in this particular case - the will of the people is wrong and the people with mpney are right, so that the best thing is to be ruled by consistent eternal principles as far as possible.

[mraynrand]

You can have a team name that honors native American heritage without having a controversy like this. They should change it.

Sure you can do both. I wonder just what the actual harm is in the name of the franchise. How many people are having their lives destroyed by the negative image of the Redskins versus the joy it elicits. Can we measure that? Or should a single offended voice, or two , three, sixty or five hundred be the standard? And should that same principle of offense extend to other areas of social life? After all, it's just a sports team, right?

[mraynrand]

Native Americans were victims of a near genocide..

that's inaccurate, but if you want a history lesson, start a thread in FYI

[Smeefers]

I suppose Joe kind of hit the nail on the head. When the team name was created, was Redskin considered a racial slur? We can all look at it today and go Oh sure, of course it was. It's obvious!

But it's not.

Back in the day, for all I know, Redskin was akin to saying Negro. Close but no cigar.

What if in 100 years, Packer is considered a homophobic slur? Should the packers have to change their name? Even though Packer never really was a homophobic slur, it was close. Close enough to where all "the gays" are up in arms over this obviously insulting name. "You know what the packers used to do to opponents? They used to fuck them right in the ass. How is this name still around? Hell, the Vikings fans still call them fudge packers! This is an outrage!"

[mraynrand]

"You know what the packers used to do to opponents? They used to fuck them right in the ass. How is this name still around? Hell, the Vikings fans still call them fudge packers! This is an outrage!"

lol

[MJZiggy]

How about always being portrayed as drunk and ready to brawl?

I thought that was just a Wisconsin thing...

[RashanGary]

As a hint to ideological aspect, without going FYI on you, consider that sometimes - not necessarily in this particular case - the will of the people is wrong and the people with mpney are right, so that the best thing is to be ruled by consistent eternal principles as far as possible.

We can get into ideology, principle or anything else. I understand the natives not wanting a professional football team called the "Redskins" and I find it funny to see Schneider wiggle while he tries to get his way.

What's he going to do? Go to the grave fighting these stupid little fights? He has enough money to just live life, but here he is, all bent out of shape over doing a decent thing for a group of people. He seems like a miserable, pathetic old man. He's proof you can have everything and nothing at all at the same time.

[Iron Mike]

I'd be all about the Brooklyn Kikes:

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2013/06/taiwanese-animators-come-up-with-other-racist-team-names.html

[KYPack]

I suppose Joe kind of hit the nail on the head. When the team name was created, was Redskin considered a racial slur? We can all look at it today and go Oh sure, of course it was. It's obvious!

But it's not.

Back in the day, for all I know, Redskin was akin to saying Negro. Close but no cigar.

What if in 100 years, Packer is considered a homophobic slur? Should the packers have to change their name? Even though Packer never really was a homophobic slur, it was close. Close enough to where all "the gays" are up in arms over this obviously insulting name. "You know what the packers used to do to opponents? They used to fuck them right in the ass. How is this name still around? Hell, the Vikings fans still call them fudge packers! This is an outrage!"

My favorite fan sign was displayed in a long ago Monday nite game.

GB vs The 49ers.

A Frisco fan held up a sign that read "Pack the Pack".

Don Meredith quipped, "People are weird up here".

[pbmax]

I only have a problem with the ones that are racial slurs. It might be worth noting that George Preston Marshall, who changed the name of the team from Braves to Redskins, did not have a great record on racial policy. His was the last NFL team to integrate, and by more than a decade. In fact, it wasn't until the Kennedy administration threatened to disallow them from playing in the new Washington stadium, which was paid for by tax dollars, that he signed a black player. So it's certainly possible the name Redskins was chosen because it was a racial slur, not despite it. You can have a team name that honors native American heritage without having a controversy like this. They should change it.

I read somewhere he had a relative, I am guessing a non-sibling, who was 1/64th cherokee or something along those lines. But I can't find the reference now.

[pbmax]

That's a good point. In the grand scheme of things, it's really a small matter.

Of course there are other considerations driving activists to change names, or for people to resist the change but they are ideological and/or political.

Sometimes its a business concern. One of the reasons Marshall fought integration was that his best markets (mostly untapped until the Cowboys arrived in Dallas) were all Southern.

Now, a name change would generate a lot of revenue in new merchandise sales, though its hard to estimate what losses in other areas might occur.

[hoosier]

Sometimes its a business concern. One of the reasons Marshall fought integration was that his best markets (mostly untapped until the Cowboys arrived in Dallas) were all Southern.

Now, a name change would generate a lot of revenue in new merchandise sales, though its hard to estimate what losses in other areas might occur.

It could be that Marshall's resistance to integration had a commercial basis. After all, his major talent as an owner seemed to be a knack for creating spectacles (see below). But the unapologetic racism had to have been more than just a marketing ploy. When he died Marshall left a lot of money to a foundation he set up to help DC kids in areas like health, welfare, education and sports. Sounds like a good deed, right? But then he went and tried to insert a clause in the will saying that none of the money could be used to support racial integration in any form (the clause got shot down in the courts). And then they buried him in a West Virginia cemetery whose name is Indian Mound.

[mraynrand]

It could be that Marshall's resistance to integration had a commercial basis. After all, his major talent as an owner seemed to be a knack for creating spectacles (see below). But the unapologetic racism had to have been more than just a marketing ploy. When he died Marshall left a lot of money to a foundation he set up to help DC kids in areas like health, welfare, education and sports. Sounds like a good deed, right? But then he went and tried to insert a clause in the will saying that none of the money could be used to support racial integration in any form (the clause got shot down in the courts). And then they buried him in a West Virginia cemetery whose name is Indian Mound.

Thank god in the modern progressive world no one self-segregates anymore!

[Guiness]

The Sterling story has both knocked the Redskins name off the top of the list, but also raised the profile in general.

One question I've have is why the Redskins seem to (current events notwithstanding) attract all the attention, and little or nothing is said about the Indians, Braves, Blackhawks and Chiefs. If I was to pick the most offensive of those 5, I'd say it was the Indians because it's both an insult and a generalization. In my associations with natives (quite a lot through elementary and high school) calling someone an Indian was derogatory and generally meant you were looking for trouble - I'd guess pretty close to using the term nigger.

[bobblehead]

The Sterling story has both knocked the Redskins name off the top of the list, but also raised the profile in general.

One question I've have is why the Redskins seem to (current events notwithstanding) attract all the attention, and little or nothing is said about the Indians, Braves, Blackhawks and Chiefs. If I was to pick the most offensive of those 5, I'd say it was the Indians because it's both an insult and a generalization. In my associations with natives (quite a lot through elementary and high school) calling someone an Indian was derogatory and generally meant you were looking for trouble - I'd guess pretty close to using the term nigger.

Indian isn't offensive any more than Caucasian is. Redskin is offensive because its a description with no positive interpretation (unless you find red skin attractive I guess). Chiefs and Braves could be construed as complimentary in most manners. I believe Blackhawks were an actual tribe (??). If I owned the Redskins I would change their name to the mighty whiteys and end the subject.