Suh Fined, Not Suspended

[RashanGary]

You sound like Greg Williams.

Honestly, I think i echo the mentality of most good defensive players and coaches throughout the history of football. I think there is a little part of everyone who feels bad for the opponent when they're injured, but football fosters desperation and proactive self preservation. In a word, agressiveness. The feeling of rekief that you just disarmed a potential threat trumps feeling bad for their pain. The only honest time where everyone on the field actuall cares is when a player breaks his neck or appears to have. The reality that life isnimportant finally comes to the forefront. But when a guynshreds his knee, about the only honest emotion i see from a defense is get thisnguynoff the field so we can do it to the next guy. Nobody feels bad. There is too much of a possibility that you're next to care about the other teams knees and hips. You care about yours and your teammates. Thats it.

[RashanGary]

People who have never experienced real, prolonged danger probably cant even comprehend what it would be like to wish harm on another human being. I've been there. Ive envisioned putting an arrow through the chest of my physically, emotionally and sexually abusive step dad. I held my bow in my hand while my mom was getting beaten and considered it. I never did, but ive had my back far enogh against a wall often enough to relate to wanting to destroy another person. Probably, the first thing i would have done as he bleed out was stand over him, put my hand on his throat in a feeling of dominance and said, "you will never hurt another one of us again" after that, probably cried and hugged my mom.

Regardless, people with their backs against the wall fight in a way some people cant even fathom. Football fosters that part of people. The desperation to win only snowballs with the real desperation to protect uour body and the bodies of your teammates. The feeling of needing to dominate and destroy is brought to the forefront.

inflicting physical harm is the epitome of stopping a mother fucker in his tracks. The need to win becomes as strong as the need to survive. You dont have time to care. Thats how football is played. Thats how the greatest defenders do what they do. They hurt people pecause they want to. They want to because their desperate. They're desperate because their in harms way and because losing feels like dying. You only have time to dominate, to destroy. Greg Williams said it well, but every team draws on that primal desperation to dominate, to be the aggressor.

[MadScientist]

My only issue with suh is that he doesnt make a good enough effort to stay within the rules. The penalties are a killer for his team. But his on-field demeanor, thats a guy you want on your team. I love when we injure players. Inflicting damage is the goal. You want to break your opponents body along with their spirit and will. The things he does to Quarterbacks are wonderful.

There's a big difference between hurting your opponent and injuring him. Throwing out cheap shots to heads and knees, most injuries happen when a foot or something gets caught and then a hit comes from a side. It happens, it's part of football, but I can't see a reason to love it happening. A couple of years ago (may have been during the SB run) a Dallas player hit Rodgers when his leg was caught. He knew if he continued it would blow out Rodgers leg, so he let up. Rodgers was able to bounce back up without injury. That's good football.

I want the Packers to hit the other guys so hard they don't want to get up, but not in a way that they can't get up.

[mraynrand]

A lot of people face terrible conflicts in their personal lives without inflicting it upon others, regardless of whether it's a physical sport or sharpening pencils in a CPA's office. I have sympathy for people who have those conflicts, but I think it's a bad idea to go down the road of trying to justify (or even just 'explain') bad behaviour on the playing field due to a certain mentality; either one that came from a troubled background, or one that is ginned up by an irresponsible coach. There are all sorts of stories about players with troubled backgrounds or aggressive impulses who use the football field to express that aggression physically, as an outlet, and yet do so without breaking the rules.

[RashanGary]

McCarthy, in that SB run played tapes of people going to war, protecting their fellow soldiers, prevailing, surviving. He may not have said,"affect the head" but he did inspire intense feelings of the commaradery that comes with surviving as a unit. The rest comes on its own. When you truly feel your in a corner with your unit and you depend on each other to survive, nobody has to tell you what to do to dominate, you just do. You care about your group, your team, not the people trying to hurt you. Thats what is drawn on in football. Thats how they feel on the field. Thats why these guys seem ruthless, but really they're just people pushed to the limits of desparation. Jolly plays that way, sitton, suh, sapp. . . . . passionate people who are desperate will shoot a mother fucker in the chest to protect their mom or spike a qbs head off the turf to stop him from destroying their team. Now, is it really that desperate? maybe not, but good coaches make you believe it is and good players believe it for 60 minutes on sunday.

[RashanGary]

A lot of people face terrible conflicts in their personal lives without inflicting it upon others, regardless of whether it's a physical sport or sharpening pencils in a CPA's office. I have sympathy for people who have those conflicts, but I think it's a bad idea to go down the road of trying to justify (or even just 'explain') bad behaviour on the playing field due to a certain mentality; either one that came from a troubled background, or one that is ginned up by an irresponsible coach. There are all sorts of stories about players with troubled backgrounds or aggressive impulses who use the football field to express that aggression physically, as an outlet, and yet do so without breaking the rules.

dude, if someone far superior to me physically is appearing to take the life of a loved one and all I hace is a 3" pocket knife, its going to be prudent of me to make sure he doesnt see me before i put it in his neck. Thats a rule. You're going to be penalized for stupidity in life and football and the penalties can be severe. Yes, he has to have a better awareness of the reality of his situation.

Fact remains, coaches and players draw on the unity and desperation I grew up in. Crossing the line of aggressiveness to unnecessary brutality is a greyer line than a lot of people want to think. At what point is force too much? Thats the point i make, these guys are on the edge of snapping. They play to destroy and dominate. Sometimes it goes too far. Get over it.

[George Cumby]

Are we not mixing apples and oranges, here? It's one thing to protect your loved ones, its another to intentionally injure your opponent in a GAME.

I LOVE a physically dominating defense that intimidates their opponent. I don't necessarily wish to see the opponents injured.

.02

[mraynrand]

At what point is force too much?

when you break the rules. and from watching football for a lifetime, and knowing a lot of the guys you talk about (guys who came from horrible backgrounds even worse than what you faced), most guys know what the boundaries are and play right up to them - but not over. You may be surprised that a lot of kids who face abuse, who experience alcoholic, brutalizing fathers and other terrible circumstances, are actually able to grow up adjust and find peace - and use a sport like football as an outlet, without crossing the line to be a dirty player. At the same time, guys who grow up in nice households, with picnics and noodle salads, turn into jerks.

Either way, I'm not excited about using a troubled childhood as a way to justify bad behavior, and I certainly want to remove coaches who use that as a motivation for dirty play on the field.

[RashanGary]

Are we not mixing apples and oranges, here? It's one thing to protect your loved ones, its another to intentionally injure your opponent in a GAME.

I LOVE a physically dominating defense that intimidates their opponent. I don't necessarily wish to see the opponents injured.

.02

And i understand that. The amount of pressure you'd have to have put on you before you commit to that type of aggression is probably greater than mine. Id say that for most people. I would also say, there is a level of danger where you would hurt a person intentionally, and a level where the only thing you would feel is relief that the danger was removed. You've just never been there most likely, and consider that a blessing. Doesnt mean football players dont draw on it though.

Even in football, you really only see the worst of the worst in the post season because its more desperate.

I do agree, and Ive come a long way in my life feeling safe with people and safe in the world. I dont like the fact that i flip that switch sometimes. But i do see what goes on out there and i do understand it. I probably shouldnt even watch football. It brings that part of me out. I have a hard time picturing not doing everything to win. I just want to destroy. And when one of them does harm to one of us, i picture their leg snapping and i dont care. Thats just the truth and im only that cold when it comes to winning.

[RashanGary]

Either way, I'm not excited about using a troubled childhood as a way to justify bad behavior, and I certainly want to remove coaches who use that as a motivation for dirty play on the field.

Thats fine, but you're missing out on realities of humanity.

[Fritz]

There is a story just brewing here in Detroit that Suh had another off-the-field "incident."


Coincidentally, Suh makes a comment that fits absolutely perfectly here and melds the discussion of on- and off- field behaviors.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130911/SPORTS0101/309110107/

[Patler]

Am I wrong about this? It seems to me that not so long ago, the block by Suh wouldn't have even merited a penalty. So long as you got your head in front of the player, it wasn't a "clip", and blocking low was allowed - period. Didn't matter where on the field it was. It looked like Suh had is helmet in front.

Was that longer ago than I remember it being????

[Guiness]

Am I wrong about this? It seems to me that not so long ago, the block by Suh wouldn't have even merited a penalty. So long as you got your head in front of the player, it wasn't a "clip", and blocking low was allowed - period. Didn't matter where on the field it was. It looked like Suh had is helmet in front.

Was that longer ago than I remember it being????

Like last season? That was a peel-back block defined, and there was no shortage of press on that rule change this off-season, as I'm sure you know Patler!

AFAIK Cut blocking is only allowed in close line play with a player who is not engaged with another blocker. Can you cut block a defender in the open field if he is NOT moving towards his own goal line? I'm not sure.

[mraynrand]

Can you cut block a defender in the open field if he is NOT moving towards his own goal line? I'm not sure.

So maybe Suh was just ignorant of the new rule, and he wasn't trying to kill the specter of his abusive father.

[Fritz]

He thought it was the Comcast repairman illegally entering his property.