Packers will have tough cap decisions to make

[pbmax]

I agree with you that Finley didn't run away from the defender, but after that happened what did you expect him to do? The ball was put in a place where Finley couldn't jump or take the ball away from a defender. I have a hard time calling that a contested ball. I'm surprised Rodgers even threw that pass.

I am guessing he threw it because Finley was 1 on 1 with a linebacker. The pass was not high, but had he fully separated from the LB (and I mean to shrug off the grabs and pulls, not just accelerate) he could have either caught it with both hands and turned or jumped to break the target of the safety and receive the blow at a place of his choosing.

Getting open in close quarters doesn't mean simply running by people, with a safety over the top, that doesn't always work. It can mean a single decisive break on the ball. Which is what he no longer seems to do. Too often he is waving at it with one hand.

Wilde wrote that Finley is running again like he is not concerned about his knee. That may be true. But he isn't contesting for the ball like he no longer fears getting hit.

[Carolina_Packer]

a center and maybe someone to replace lang would be a nice use of the money that finley would take up

Totally agree, Red. I'm not sure what the plans are with Tretter, but if he can get back this year and provide any kind of competition for EDS and solidify the middle, that would be great. If not this season, then next training camp EDS needs some serious competition as he is being walked/shoved into the back field in pass pro too often.

While I know we wish that Bulaga and Sherrod had never gotten hurt, the reality is that they may never be what the Packers hoped when drafted. It's hard to fix a boat that keeps springing new leaks, but I'm tired of the o-line being shaky and for sign and develop guys to all mesh. Did you see Manning last night with a new center? I know Oakland is not near Cinci's front 7, but damn he had all day. Tom Brady loses his weapons, but the o-line play is still solid.

Get the o-line issue figured out however you have to do it and then A-Rod will be even more dangerous instead of having to always be good under duress. Geez, what would he do if he had clean plays most of the time?

[red]

???????

Finley was knocked out on the first Packer series of the game. How many yards did you expect him to have after 6 plays?

yup, you're right. it just seemed like it was later in the game because we were already losing 14-0

[Bretsky]

yup, you're right. it just seemed like it was later in the game because we were already losing 14-0

Hmmm; how early did you start drinking that day ???

[Fritz]

I think PB hit the central issue square on the head with this line: " But he isn't contesting for the ball like he no longer fears getting hit."

That's the problem I have. I don't want the Packers to pay a guy the eight million a year or whatever it is when he's been public about not really wanting to go over the middle. There was a quote from Finley in another thread, I think (or was it this one?) in which he mentioned he liked the way he was being used this year because he wasn't being asked to go over the middle so much.

I love Finley's talent, but here we are, still talking about him "turning the corner" which we've been doing for the past two or three years now. Remember, the Packers kept him and paid him his big bonus this year because this was the year he was supposed to have already turned the corner, and was going to prove it.

But he still has his big drops, and he's afraid to go over the middle and play big. To me, that's not a guy you fork over a lot of money to, when you've got BJ Raji, Sam Shields, and several others waiting, with their palms out, for a big pay day.

I'm not against re-signing Finley, but I wouldn't re-sign him for the number you guys are throwing around, which may be the number he's looking for.

[mraynrand]

I don't know how Finley could play any bigger than to lay out for a tough ball right in the middle of the field between the LB and Safety and get his head handed to him. That's no man's land. It's not like a slot receiver who sets down into a hole and waits for the ball. Dude laid it all out there. Finley is still a beast, and you can still throw to him when covered because of the size advantage. A lot of times Finley beasted it in 2009 when they got great outside one on one matchups with smaller defensive backs or inside with slower LBs. Teams now game plan for him and double cover him. If they don't they typically get smoked.

But of course, we could get great value if we traded him straight up to the Rams for Scotty Wells. You then eliminate all the dropped passes and shore up the O-line into an elite, top 3 O-line - due to Well's awesomeness. Wells never drops passes.

[Fritz]

Just because I did not watch the game and did not even see the play doesn't mean I am wrong.

Wait. How about "Well he only did it once so that doesn't prove anything."

[Bossman641]

I don't know how Finley could play any bigger than to lay out for a tough ball right in the middle of the field between the LB and Safety and get his head handed to him. That's no man's land. It's not like a slot receiver who sets down into a hole and waits for the ball. Dude laid it all out there. Finley is still a beast, and you can still throw to him when covered because of the size advantage. A lot of times Finley beasted it in 2009 when they got great outside one on one matchups with smaller defensive backs or inside with slower LBs. Teams now game plan for him and double cover him. If they don't they typically get smoked.

But of course, we could get great value if we traded him straight up to the Rams for Scotty Wells. You then eliminate all the dropped passes and shore up the O-line into an elite, top 3 O-line - due to Well's awesomeness. Wells never drops passes.

+1

It's hard for me to criticize Finley on a play where he goes for the ball and is led directly into a safety. If you go to the 0:05 mark, Finley catches the ball with 2 hands and then takes one hand off the ball to brace for contact with the ground.

James Jones not fighting for position on his slant, now that is not going after a contested ball.

[pbmax]

I don't know how Finley could play any bigger than to lay out for a tough ball right in the middle of the field between the LB and Safety and get his head handed to him. That's no man's land. It's not like a slot receiver who sets down into a hole and waits for the ball. Dude laid it all out there. Finley is still a beast, and you can still throw to him when covered because of the size advantage. A lot of times Finley beasted it in 2009 when they got great outside one on one matchups with smaller defensive backs or inside with slower LBs. Teams now game plan for him and double cover him. If they don't they typically get smoked.

But of course, we could get great value if we traded him straight up to the Rams for Scotty Wells. You then eliminate all the dropped passes and shore up the O-line into an elite, top 3 O-line - due to Well's awesomeness. Wells never drops passes.

I cannot be certain. He did make a play for the ball, Rodgers has said it was a beat late (its timed off a shortened 3 step drop - then he lost me) and the safety was headed his way. But that is always how those seam route happen. Its rarely clean.

He coud be a victim of matchups and they did single the other three WRs so there was a safety over the top to help.

But I cannot recall him decisively making a play on the ball since the injury when contested. My memory is not perfect and it probably HAS happened. But its not often and its not usually over the middle. With the weight back on he should be able to shoulder past touch and grab by a LB. But the best he could do was reach out a hand. I will say this for him, whatever body control he did not have, he stabbed that thing with one hand and pulled it in. Still remarkable.

Is this overreacting? Possibly. Having enough talent to get open short and get YAC is enough reason to keep a TE. But I do not think its enough to be paid near the franchise number. He's a bit like KGB now. Probably overpaid this year but still a head above the rest of what is available on the roster.

[pbmax]

That second slo-mo shows everything about him. Tremendous short time reaction to ball and stabs it with one hand. Immediately is able to pull it in to two hands.

But by reaching with one hand (which he seems to do more of these days) he fails to turn his body, possible to keep one eye on the safety or to prepare to gain YAC. Had he turned his body or jump-stopped in between the safety and the ball, he could have shielded himself from that shot. Easy to say while sitting here watching the replay, but its almost like he has forgotten how to get position and protect himself in traffic.

[Guiness]

Cap numbers for various players get thrown around - from $2million for Bush to $9.5 for Tramon Williams, with a lot of salaries around $4-6M which the Pack will have to make decisions on.

With the exception of Williams, all of those numbers pale in comparison to the >$20M Rodgers takes home. In the QB centric NFL that exists today, he's well worth it and the Pack had to give it to him, but it sure skews the whole system with one player making that much money. The new rookie salary structure was supposed to take the money away from the unproven college kids and give it to the vets but that's not what happened...it all went straight to the top 1% of the league, who are predominantly QBs.

I'd like to see some numbers that show how much the top 10 QB salaries in the league have gone up compared to the salary cap since the new CBA. Seems to me that they have all gotten close to or more than $20M/season. Rodgers, Brees, Ryan, Flacco are all over 20. P. Manning and Brady both seemed to have signed for just under that number, although it's hard to tell just what Brady got.

edit: and Romo. He's at or near the 20 mark. Stafford got a bit less.

Thing is, it's no coincidence that the teams those QBs are on are also the most successful in the NFL, so they money (well, except Flacco!) is worth it, so I don't see how this Brave New Reality changes.

[pbmax]

The new rookie salary structure was supposed to take the money away from the unproven college kids and give it to the vets but that's not what happened...it all went straight to the top 1% of the league, who are predominantly QBs.

I would bet most of the money went to the owners. QBs continue to do well, but the cap shrunk the first year of the new deal by $7 million per team and has still not recovered to the previous level. The cash minimums also have not fully kicked in yet.

[Guiness]

I would bet most of the money went to the owners. QBs continue to do well, but the cap shrunk the first year of the new deal by $7 million per team and has still not recovered to the previous level. The cash minimums also have not fully kicked in yet.

The cap went down by a few million, but is back where it was in 2010 now, isn't it? It's hard to find the numbers.

The NFL sold the PA on the idea that money saved by paying the rookies less would end up going to vets. It mostly ended up with QBs.

[mraynrand]

I cannot be certain. He did make a play for the ball, Rodgers has said it was a beat late (its timed off a shortened 3 step drop - then he lost me) and the safety was headed his way. But that is always how those seam route happen. Its rarely clean.

He coud be a victim of matchups and they did single the other three WRs so there was a safety over the top to help.

But I cannot recall him decisively making a play on the ball since the injury when contested. My memory is not perfect and it probably HAS happened. But its not often and its not usually over the middle. With the weight back on he should be able to shoulder past touch and grab by a LB. But the best he could do was reach out a hand. I will say this for him, whatever body control he did not have, he stabbed that thing with one hand and pulled it in. Still remarkable.

Is this overreacting? Possibly. Having enough talent to get open short and get YAC is enough reason to keep a TE. But I do not think its enough to be paid near the franchise number. He's a bit like KGB now. Probably overpaid this year but still a head above the rest of what is available on the roster.

I'll concede a faulty memory too, but I don't recall Finley's greatest moments from 2009 catching in traffic over the middle. My recollection is that most of his greatest moments come from favorable matchups - on a smaller db or slower LB. That was certainly true of his 3 TD game versus Chicago for example.

Much has been made of the decline of his hands. Not convinced that's more perception than reality. Kinda like Ahman Green ruining the 2003 Packers with fumbles.

[red]

The cap went down by a few million, but is back where it was in 2010 now, isn't it? It's hard to find the numbers.

The NFL sold the PA on the idea that money saved by paying the rookies less would end up going to vets. It mostly ended up with QBs.

it was 123 million in 2009 and it is 123 million today

if the cap would have continued growing the way it was before 2009 (going up between 7 and 15 million a year) the cap today would be over 150 million