Pink Elephant in the room

[Fritz]

Maybe that's the lesson learned. I watched the game film again and, in hindsight, the perfect play would have been a fake to Franklin and a QB keeper around left end. The way the Bengals lined up, stacked in the middle in reaction to the Packers tight run formation, you would expect Rodgers to change the play, keep it on his own and roll out or call time. (On seeing the game video again, I think a QB sneak would have had to have been perfectly executed to work. EDS is no Ken Bowman.) Franklin didn't have a chance given the time it took to hand-off.

Let me pour some gasoline on a lit match: what if Rodgers didn't change the call at the line cuz he'd gotten into it earlier with MM about the play calling? ("Okay, you fat fuck, you wanna call a shit play, I'll run your shit play.")

[Pugger]

Here's my question about the play. Did Franklin get too high in thee air? he had to get his feet off the ground or he would have been tripping over his own linemen. But should he have been just trying to dive over the backs of the linemen instead of jumping up as high as he did? I know it's become a bit of a humorous cliche around here, but was his pad level too high?

You might be on to something here. When you are up in the air like that it gives defenders a better shot at stripping the ball out of there.

[Pugger]

thats the problem with the very deep handoff that took place, if it had been a sneak then maybe you don't have the whole defense in there so fast.

but that handoff seemed like it was 5 or 6 yards behind the LOS at least, and it just took way to long to develop

as for pad level. yes, in the picture it looks like theres a nice neat hole for him to shoot through, but thats just because the whole defense is converging on franklin. if franklin would have gone lower, i would guess all the defenders still would have stuffed him

There pad level was so low the linemen all ended up on their bellies.

[hoosier]

I believe Franklin was going airborne (instead of diving), so the pads too high argument doesn't work in this case.

[SkinBasket]

I seem to recall the ball came out pretty quick - like before Franklin even had the chance to go high or low or bounce anywhere, so I think it's hard to gauge if he could, or should, have done any of those things. But I could be wrong. I drank a lot after that game.

Anyway, the ball is already half way to the ground in that picture, so Franklin might be upright because he's trying to do... something to find the ball.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Yes, he was too high (there are two Bengals thoroughly blocked and in a position to do nothing but collect dust. Franklin is running into the upright ones.

But the other problem with the play is time. He has to hit the hole faster. Johnson should not be able to close that fast. Hit that hole the 3 prone Packers carved out low and drive with knees and feet, but he has to get there earlier.

Disagree he was too high. Yes, there were 2 Bengals on the ground but the other 4 Bengals there filled the hole wicked fast. He really didn't have any chance by the time he got there, even if he put his head down. He figured the best chance he had was to go vertical and got slammed from the side and the Bengals' helmet knocked the ball loose. If Franklin hadn't started so deep, he would have gotten that first down as he would have hit the hole much more quickly. He starts 2 feet closer to Rodgers and he makes it easy as the initial hole was there.

[hoosier]

In the video clip it looks pretty clear to me that he's trying to go up and over. And if he had tried to go low instead, there were Bengals linemen in both of the A gaps as well as one over center, and all three managed to get lower than Lang, EDS and Sitton, so if Franklin had decided to go low he wasn't going anywhere. In retrospect, maybe MM should have called a stretch play to one side and given Franklin a couple of options to choose from. Or maybe that would have gotten blown up too.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/cincinnati-bengals/0ap2000000249455/Bengals-defense-fumble-recovery

[Maxie the Taxi]

I still don't understand why Rodgers didn't call time, recognizing that Cincy was stacked against the play called. I mean when I watched the video and saw how Cincy was bunched in the box it even scared me and I was watching it on TV three days later! Maybe Fritz is right. Arod and MM in a pissing contest.

[Guiness]

Thanks for the link hoosier.

Watching it, I forgot how early that ball came out. The announcers credited Johnson, but I'm not even sure he didn't just drop it. Watch the slow motion (starting at :44) and in all three views there is no Bengal clearly knocking the ball out. Johnson was the first guy there, if it was him he punched it out quickly.

Franklin definitely tried to go up and over, you can see him launch on his way in. The Bengals totally sold out to that play, 6 guys on the LOS at the snap and two more moving forward at the snap of the ball. The other three were in coverage, I didn't realize the Pack had three WRs on that play, Nelson, Cobb and it looks like JJ at the bottom of the screen. Only with this team is three WRs a running formation!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Thanks for the link hoosier.

Watching it, I forgot how early that ball came out. The announcers credited Johnson, but I'm not even sure he didn't just drop it. Watch the slow motion (starting at :44) and in all three views there is no Bengal clearly knocking the ball out. Johnson was the first guy there, if it was him he punched it out quickly.

Franklin definitely tried to go up and over, you can see him launch on his way in. The Bengals totally sold out to that play, 6 guys on the LOS at the snap and two more moving forward at the snap of the ball. The other three were in coverage, I didn't realize the Pack had three WRs on that play, Nelson, Cobb and it looks like JJ at the bottom of the screen. Only with this team is three WRs a running formation!

It was Johnson. He knocked it out with his helmet.

[Guiness]

It was Johnson. He knocked it out with his helmet.

That helmet must've been a guided stealth missile! Ball looks like it came out at first contact. Franklin really didn't have it well wrapped up considering he was going straight into a stacked line.

[mraynrand]

Just a few observations: Last year the Packers were horrible in short yardage. Horrible. They are a passing team. Their best player is their QB, by far, followed by their receivers. When in doubt, go to your strength. fourth and the game, you keep the ball in Rodger's hands, not the Rookie that was on the bubble, and only got into the game due to injury. Next, who said you had a good power run blocking O-line? Next, if the idea was to fool the defense, and you didn't fool them, why go through with the play (Rodgers sticking it to Stubby - really?). Like most fans I hate the play call because it didn't work. Had it worked, I'm certain I could find all sorts of ways to praise the genius of it.

[3irty1]

Just a few observations: Last year the Packers were horrible in short yardage. Horrible. They are a passing team. Their best player is their QB, by far, followed by their receivers. When in doubt, go to your strength. fourth and the game, you keep the ball in Rodger's hands, not the Rookie that was on the bubble, and only got into the game due to injury. Next, who said you had a good power run blocking O-line? Next, if the idea was to fool the defense, and you didn't fool them, why go through with the play (Rodgers sticking it to Stubby - really?). Like most fans I hate the play call because it didn't work. Had it worked, I'm certain I could find all sorts of ways to praise the genius of it.

To this day I still consider MM's greatest play call to be the play at the end of a 2010 Lions game in Detroit. We're down 3-7, in a toilet bowl of a game. AR is out and Flynn is the QB. It's 4th and 1 or 2 about 30 yards from the go-ahead touchdown. Detroit moves its safeties right to the line of scrimmage. We call a vertical passing play and Flynn lobs it into grass and the Packers lose.

That was the greatest play call IMO because of the message it sent the league. "There is no situation where I will not take what you give me. Last play of the game, back up QB, on the road, playoff consequences... NEVER."

[mraynrand]

To this day I still consider MM's greatest play call to be the play at the end of a 2010 Lions game in Detroit. We're down 3-7, in a toilet bowl of a game. AR is out and Flynn is the QB. It's 4th and 1 or 2 about 30 yards from the go-ahead touchdown. Detroit moves its safeties right to the line of scrimmage. We call a vertical passing play and Flynn lobs it into FieldTurf™ and the Packers lose.

That was the greatest play call IMO because of the message it sent the league. "There is no situation where I will not take what you give me. Last play of the game, back up QB, on the road, playoff consequences... NEVER."

nice. (FIFY)

[Fritz]

Just a few observations: Last year the Packers were horrible in short yardage. Horrible. They are a passing team. Their best player is their QB, by far, followed by their receivers. When in doubt, go to your strength. fourth and the game, you keep the ball in Rodger's hands, not the Rookie that was on the bubble, and only got into the game due to injury. Next, who said you had a good power run blocking O-line? Next, if the idea was to fool the defense, and you didn't fool them, why go through with the play (Rodgers sticking it to Stubby - really?). Like most fans I hate the play call because it didn't work. Had it worked, I'm certain I could find all sorts of ways to praise the genius of it.

Ah, hell, I said I was throwing gasoline on a lit match.

I don't get why Rodgers didn't audible out, then.