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Originally posted by Fritz
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That they have played 1 less game than the other 3 teams?Originally posted by 3irty1 -
Superb. Yes.
Add 24 points to both sides of the ledger and it shows that both the offense and defense are respectively behind and ahead of the other teams in the division."The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPackComment
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I have been relaying this same story repeatedly since it was first published, when ever I respond to complaints about the lack of slants in the current Packer scheme. I can no longer find the link to the article, which I used to post each time. It was sometime during Rodger's first year as a starter, but I no longer remember if it was before, during or after that season. It was simply an interesting discussion of what we might expect to be different with Rodgers at QB than with Favre. MM talked about things that were similar, and things that were different. The discussion of favorite routes/throws has always stuck with me. Every time I see Rodgers connect with Nelson on the sidelines, I think to myself that it is his bread and butter play, just like the slant had been for Favre, and I remember that it is exactly what MM had said.Originally posted by mraynrand View PostComment
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Frankly, I think it's high time that OL coach Campen be let go. We have seen year after year that the OL cannot run block very well. Rodgers is in the tops of the league in being sacked time and time again. True, injuries have happened, but I'm not seeing improvement by any of the players out there and that's on coaching. There's been one constant on the OL and that's Campen and perhaps it's time for some new blood there to see if that works.Originally posted by red View PostAll hail the Ruler of the Meadow!Comment
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What exactly is your point? We're not special?Originally posted by Fritz View PostAll hail the Ruler of the Meadow!Comment
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Frankly, I have a hard time blaming Campen. Actually, the problem is endemic with this team and starts with Special Teams. Fire Slocum!Originally posted by Cheesehead Craig View PostOne time Lombardi was disgusted with the team in practice and told them they were going to have to start with the basics. He held up a ball and said: "This is a football." McGee immediately called out, "Stop, coach, you're going too fast," and that gave everyone a laugh.
John Maxymuk, Packers By The NumbersComment
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I have no doubt this article exists and that you read it properly. Another view may be that MM changed the offense to stress vertical routes with Rodgers because Rodgers has such great deep accuracy and Favre didn't. There are other factors like how teams defend the slant, pass rush, etc. etc. that also play in. I just wanted to make the point that my guess is that it is all these things, rather than any deficiency on Rodger's part in being able to throw the slant. One possibility though is that Rodgers doesn't read the coverage on the slant as well as Favre did. While both have been burned by LBs jumping in that first window or disguising a pass rush and dropping back, maybe Rodgers is more susceptible. I don't have any numbers to back that up, only that I've seen both get burned, but Favre more, probably because he threw more.Originally posted by Patler View Post"Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - WoodbuckComment
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I'm not sure about this with Re: to Campen. But it is the coaching in general. For evidence I submit last year's game against Seattle. The first half focus on pass only was getting Rodgers killed and killing drives. An adjustment to the run game in the second have turned the tide. That's not on Campen, it's on Stubby. The key is finding that balance. Stubby wants big plays/quick hit scores - thus the vertical game and now the hurry up. He sometimes seems to forget that the defense game plans too, and that they know of his tendency to eschew the run. The O-line is probably average/below average compared across the league, and making them one-dimensional doesn't help them.Originally posted by Cheesehead Craig View Post"Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - WoodbuckComment
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My point is that perhaps we're wrong about both sides of the ball: the offense isn't as good as we thought, and the defense not as bad.Originally posted by Cheesehead Craig View Post"The Devine era is actually worse than you remember if you go back and look at it."
KYPackComment
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Their run blocking this year is as good as its been since late 2007 and late 2010. It might prove to be better than both years before this is over. Right now, its pass blocking that is suffering and that is a deficiency of talent at right tackle mainly. Bach has done well enough its next to impossible to say he is as shaky as Newhouse.Originally posted by Cheesehead Craig View PostBud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.Comment
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I didn't (and don't) disagree with all the other factors, I just wanted to point out that we were warned it would change, and we probably shouldn't expect it to change back.Originally posted by mraynrand View Post
Throwing well for a particular route is much more than just a physical ability to throw the ball. It is all the things you now mentioned, and probably more. Favre threw slants very, very well. right up to the time he left. I find it hard to believe that after years and years of Favre burning defenses on slants over and over again, they finally decided to do something significantly different to take slants away only after Favre left. I suspect that if defenses were still doing what they are, and our QB was a 30 year old Favre, he would still find ways of completing them. He completed them in tight coverage all the time, often just powering the ball past defenders in tight coverage who simply could not react quick enough.
I found it particularly interesting that MM mentioned two routes in the discussion, and we now see things playing out pretty much as he suggested way back when. Why don't we see slants as much? Probably because with Favre it might have been what he did absolutely the best, so they went to it whenever they could; and Rodgers throws other things better, so now they go to those instead.
For all his talent and accomplishments, in some ways Favre was limited. He didn't throw sideline patterns particularly well, and was known for sailing throws over receiver's heads, particularly in his younger years. He was not particularly accurate on deep throws either; but on throws in the middle of the field from short to mid range, he had laser accuracy, and the velocity to get it to the receiver before a defender could react, even if coverage was good. Rodgers is more versatile, so nothing is used as frequently.Comment
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slants were kinda feast or famine with Favre. Jennings when he tied the TD record against SD in 2007: Feast. Throwing a pick to London Fletcher at Buffalo in 2005: famine. Receivers also make a difference. You make good points there Patler. At this point, I'm going to give my final view on the subject (free from consideration of Favre): MM went to other throws because Rodgers could make them and MM thought they had bigger play potential. I say this mostly because I've been impressed with Rodgers' ability to consistently make deep throws down the field, back shoulder throws, and sideline tosses, or combinations of these where it looks like he's handing the ball to the receiver."Never, never ever support a punk like mraynrand. Rather be as I am and feel real sympathy for his sickness." - WoodbuckComment
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I think it's a matter of working with the strengths of the player. Favre, IMO, had a combination of accuracy and a rocket arm on those throws like no other, before or since...well, maybe Elway. That allowed him to make those throws over the middle that I'm really not sure Rodgers could.
Rodgers certainly doesn't lack for arm strength, and I think the three QBs in the NFC North not named Ponder probably have the liveliest arms in the league right now...but none of them have the pop that Favre did.--
Imagine for a moment a world without hypothetical situations...Comment
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I think people are exaggerating the demise of the slant under (and because of) Aaron Rodgers. Nelson has already caught two TDs and Cobb one TD this year on slants. The truth is that Jennings was by far our best route runner on the slant. He caught a lot of slants from both Favre and Rodgers. If my memory is correct, Jennings killed the Bears early in the 2010 NFC Championship Game on that route. I think in general you see less slant routes in football, but it has nothing to do with an inability of Rodgers to throw the route. I think there's some risk ot the route. It's a route that can get receivers blown up. It's also a route that can get jumped and intercepted relatively easily.
"There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted ThompsonComment
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I was thinking about the interceptions - the way that Urlacher seemed to come up with a big INT against the Pack every year. I wonder if after years of watching the Pack throw he learned to read it??? He probably saw more of it than any other single player.
If we're talking about throws that have disappeared from the Packer's offense, it's the screen pass we should lament. I really miss watching Ahman Green catch the ball behind the DL and turn upfield for big, bruising gains. Seems to me the problem there was the right kind of back. How are Lacy's hands?--
Imagine for a moment a world without hypothetical situations...Comment
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